The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
16:42:12, 01-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 11
  Print  
Author Topic: Re: Anonymity/Pseudonyms on MBs  (Read 1260 times)
Baz
Guest
« Reply #105 on: 00:15:19, 10-07-2008 »

Logged
ahinton
*****
Posts: 1543


WWW
« Reply #106 on: 08:14:53, 10-07-2008 »

No point in stoking a fire you want to see go out, Richard. The issue in question that Baz was raising was to do with coloured immigrants - I do not engage with intelligent people who express such views; I don't know about you. And bearing in mind your own frequent insulting comments towards myself, Sydney, John, Simon Sagt and others (not to mention towards the posters at TOP, whilst continuing to post there), your views are choice, to say the least. And I know you like to make grand pronouncements about subjects you don't understand, books you've never read, theories you've never studied, with chest-thumping rhetoric as hollow as the statements themselves, especially when you can hold court amongst those not in a position to know better and thus likely to be taken in by the apparent erudition, but that doesn't make any challenge to such pig-headedness merely 'intellectual one up-manship'.
What's the address of your charm school, Ian?...
Logged
martle
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 6685



« Reply #107 on: 08:29:17, 10-07-2008 »

Logged

Green. Always green.
Ted Ryder
****
Posts: 274



« Reply #108 on: 08:39:29, 10-07-2008 »

 Since the world has been awaiting my response to the sub-thread here:- Ted Ryder has a beard. I was unable to grow one earlier in life but 6 years ago I made a brave attempt and low-and-behold thick facial fungus! I put this down to the ageing process and deny any lunar association.
Logged

I've got to get down to Sidcup.
John W
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 3644


« Reply #109 on: 08:59:27, 10-07-2008 »

In the early 1990's my wife 'encouraged' me to grow stubble ('feels like someone else'  Cheesy ) and it developed into a proper moustache and beard trimmed to 5mm. After a couple of years the beard had to go as it was turning white while the rest of my hair was still brownish/grey.

About two years later I was with my wife and kids in a Woolworth's and I was accosted by a bloke who thought I was John Major. I thought he was having a laugh, well maybe HE was, but having a stranger shouting John Major at you (repeatedly) in a Woolworth's was not funny after about 20 seconds. My kids were rolling about in a corner in fits of laughter, my wife ran out of the shop!

Yeah go on laugh! I had the biggish spectacles at the time, ok, but the thing that I couldn't understand at the time was that John Major did NOT have a moustache! But if you look, he did had a good 5 o'clock shadow on his lip, and I have to admit this is a good likeness of me circa. 1993



Today I'm more towards Uncle Fester, though I do have hair but it's ALL 5mm and now almost white  Sad
Logged
richard barrett
*****
Posts: 3123



« Reply #110 on: 09:32:21, 10-07-2008 »

No point in stoking a fire you want to see go out, Richard. The issue in question that Baz was raising was to do with coloured immigrants - I do not engage with intelligent people who express such views; I don't know about you. And bearing in mind your own frequent insulting comments towards myself, Sydney, John, Simon Sagt and others (not to mention towards the posters at TOP, whilst continuing to post there), your views are choice, to say the least. And I know you like to make grand pronouncements about subjects you don't understand, books you've never read, theories you've never studied, with chest-thumping rhetoric as hollow as the statements themselves, especially when you can hold court amongst those not in a position to know better and thus likely to be taken in by the apparent erudition, but that doesn't make any challenge to such pig-headedness merely 'intellectual one up-manship'.

As before at Music and Society, now here also: I am not prepared to share virtual space with this charmless, pig-headed, repulsive individual and I shall not be posting here again until he withdraws either himself or these comments. Every time there has been an upset on these boards he has been at the heart of it.
Logged
Philidor
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 146



WWW
« Reply #111 on: 10:10:27, 10-07-2008 »

I use a pseudonym because:

1. I’ve been stalked on the internet by a manic;

2. Identify theft is rife, e.g. numerous examples on Facebook; and

3. I agree broadly with the EFF:

Quote
The tradition of anonymous speech is older than the United States. Founders Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay wrote the Federalist Papers under the pseudonym "Publius," and "the Federal Farmer" spoke up in rebuttal. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized rights to speak anonymously derived from the First Amendment.

The right to anonymous speech is also protected well beyond the printed page. Thus, in 2002, the Supreme Court struck down a law requiring proselytizers to register their true names with the Mayor's office before going door-to-door.

These long-standing rights to anonymity and the protections it affords are critically important for the Internet. As the Supreme Court has recognized, the Internet offers a new and powerful democratic forum in which anyone can become a "pamphleteer" or "a town crier with a voice that resonates farther than it could from any soapbox."

Source

There have been two recent cases of message board owners sued to make them divulge the identity (email and IP address) of anonymous posters: Sheffield Wednesday FC v. Owlstalk, and AutoAdmit, so they, the posters, can be served with libel writs. Court officers can’t serve on fluffybunny392 of address unknown. To hit someone for libel you need their real name and address.

In each case the MB owner fought the action (AutoAdmit is ongoing) and I'd expect the owners/managers of this site to do likewise. Message board bureaucrats who roll over and p*ss on members’ privacy at the first sniff of a writ are some of the lowest forms of internet life.

And it could happen here. If a financial scandal blew up, say on R3, or if race discrimination allegations emerged, leveled against a leading London orchestra - how many black faces are there on London concert platforms? - this would be the ideal place for a whistle-blower, protected by a pseudonym, backed by muscular forum management, to broadcast the allegations.

MB anonymity throws a major spanner in the works when rich and powerful people try to stop the less rich and powerful telling the truth about their behaviour. They hate it. That’s a good enough reason for me to support MB anonymity. It’s a tradition going back to the anonymous pamphleteers of the 18th century, and it’s Ron Dough’s job,* backed by the site rules and the solidarity of the community, to defend my moniker.


* Tsk... been a member for five minutes and already telling the management how to do their job...  Shocked Grin Wink
« Last Edit: 10:12:59, 10-07-2008 by Philidor » Logged
Ron Dough
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 5133



WWW
« Reply #112 on: 10:50:51, 10-07-2008 »

Philidor,

As Moderators, we are servants of the community, so you are well within your rights to remind me of my duty towards preserving members' anonymity, whether you've been here for five minutes or fifteen months: not only members' anonymity, but their right to chose such anonymity has been considered part and parcel of this community's operation from its inception.

Ron
Logged
Ian Pace
Temporary Restriction
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4190



« Reply #113 on: 10:51:58, 10-07-2008 »

And it could happen here. If a financial scandal blew up, say on R3, or if race discrimination allegations emerged, leveled against a leading London orchestra - how many black faces are there on London concert platforms? - this would be the ideal place for a whistle-blower, protected by a pseudonym, backed by muscular forum management, to broadcast the allegations.
Well, at least potentially, anyone could make such an allegation, without it being verifiable/contestable. The moderators may be able privately to verify the identity of the poster, but is a messageboard really the place for this? I would have thought that such an anonymous poster should be speaking to a newspaper or music periodical. Certainly I'd be much more sceptical about such claims if made solely in this type of forum rather than elsewhere.

I do take your point about stalking, though, Philidor, and also the protection of anonymous speech (people have that right, for sure, but I don't see why that precludes criticism of some of them for the way they exercise it) - my comments are addressed at posters (primarily musicians) rather than moderators. When one poster, for example, uses a cross-gender pseudonym, in part to be able to promote their own work (to advocate certain works of music would come across very differently if one knew that the poster actually wrote them), or others are able to post negative comments about other musicians, without it being apparent to those not in the 'inner circle' who they are, and thus what sort of vested interests they might have, then there's a lot to wonder about.

Rich and powerful people certainly try to stop the less rich and powerful telling the truth, but the free-for-all that is the internet, where all types of allegations can be made without verifiability, doesn't seem much of an improvement. To take one example, whilst I do believe there are still questions to be asked about 9/11, in terms of whether the US government had any advance knowledge, whether they really did all they could to stop the planes after the first had hit (possibly as much to do with questions of competence as anything else - if this was in good faith, then the weakness of air defences seem pretty pitiful - why have no heads rolled over this?), it becomes almost impossible to sift through some of the manic, irrational conspiracy theories that occupy tens of thousands of internet pages, in order to see if there might be sensible answers to these questions (which may back up the official explanation - just the questions need to be answered).
Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
ahinton
*****
Posts: 1543


WWW
« Reply #114 on: 11:57:36, 10-07-2008 »

No point in stoking a fire you want to see go out, Richard. The issue in question that Baz was raising was to do with coloured immigrants - I do not engage with intelligent people who express such views; I don't know about you. And bearing in mind your own frequent insulting comments towards myself, Sydney, John, Simon Sagt and others (not to mention towards the posters at TOP, whilst continuing to post there), your views are choice, to say the least. And I know you like to make grand pronouncements about subjects you don't understand, books you've never read, theories you've never studied, with chest-thumping rhetoric as hollow as the statements themselves, especially when you can hold court amongst those not in a position to know better and thus likely to be taken in by the apparent erudition, but that doesn't make any challenge to such pig-headedness merely 'intellectual one up-manship'.

As before at Music and Society, now here also: I am not prepared to share virtual space with this charmless, pig-headed, repulsive individual and I shall not be posting here again until he withdraws either himself or these comments. Every time there has been an upset on these boards he has been at the heart of it.
Speaking for myself (and, I'm quite sure, for many others here as well), it would be a great pity were you to refrain from posting here for any reason, however understandable may be your motivation for such withdrawal, so please accept this as a serious and genuine request to reconsider.

The forum rules are what they are and, since they allow (which I might point out is not synonymous with "encourage" or even "recommend") member anonymity by means of chosen pseudonyms, so be it. It is surely only reasonable that forum members should be expected to abide by its rules, to challenge them if they see fit only if there seem to be issues of sufficient gravity to warrant such challenge and then (and this is the most important bit) to submit such challenge in an appropriate manner by seeking to counsel the membership for its views on it and, if then deemed necessary, submitting a request for rule modification to the moderators responsible for the management of the forum; all of this could be done politely without risking upsets, insults or any other forms of negativity without which we can all do and up with which we should not have to put.

For the record and for the avoidance of doubt on this issue, I have absolutely no problem with the use of chosen pseudonyms on this forum and I do not believe that those whose preference is to adopt them do so out of cowardice or any other kind of mealy-mouthed attitude. Incidentally, it is perhaps curious that the one member here who is so worked up about member anonymity has reserved the most damning and unpleasant of his insults here for another member whose forum ID happens to be "richard barrett", which sounds even less like a pseudonym to me than my own ID does...
Logged
Philidor
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 146



WWW
« Reply #115 on: 12:21:40, 10-07-2008 »

Philidor,

As Moderators, we are servants of the community, so you are well within your rights to remind me of my duty towards preserving members' anonymity, whether you've been here for five minutes or fifteen months: not only members' anonymity, but their right to chose such anonymity has been considered part and parcel of this community's operation from its inception.

Ron

You're a darling. It's still a bit cheeky though. Your typical Nazi mod would have got all huffy and retreated to the mod bunker to IP sniff.

Logged
perfect wagnerite
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1568



« Reply #116 on: 12:26:28, 10-07-2008 »

Speaking for myself (and, I'm quite sure, for many others here as well), it would be a great pity were you to refrain from posting here for any reason, however understandable may be your motivation for such withdrawal, so please accept this as a serious and genuine request to reconsider.

Seconded
Logged

At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
Philidor
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 146



WWW
« Reply #117 on: 12:39:10, 10-07-2008 »

Well, at least potentially, anyone could make such an allegation, without it being verifiable/contestable.

If an unverifiable libelous claim is made a mod would remove it, or face the ISP pulling the site and a possible writ. But if it's backed by evidence which satisfies board management - it's their call - and they can keep the ISP happy, then imo it should stay up. What's the problem? The same principle applies in all walks of life: if you say something controversial be prepared to back it up. If the evidence is good, the claim survives. The whole of modern science is based on that idea: claim + verifiable evidence.

The moderators may be able privately to verify the identity of the poster, but is a messageboard really the place for this? I would have thought that such an anonymous poster should be speaking to a newspaper or music periodical. Certainly I'd be much more sceptical about such claims if made solely in this type of forum rather than elsewhere.

Much harder to publish in a newspaper or music periodical. On condition I obey the law, the posting rules and basic decency, I can say what I want here. I've no such access to 'Early Music Quarterly'. They're probably receiving advertising revenue from the person I want to attack!*




* I don't actually want to attack anyone.
Logged
Ian Pace
Temporary Restriction
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 4190



« Reply #118 on: 12:41:50, 10-07-2008 »

Well, at least potentially, anyone could make such an allegation, without it being verifiable/contestable.

If an unverifiable libelous claim is made a mod would remove it, or face the ISP pulling the site and a possible writ. But if it's backed by evidence which satisfies board management - it's their call - and they can keep the ISP happy, then imo it should stay up. What's the problem? The same principle applies in all walks of life: if you say something controversial be prepared to back it up.
The problem is precisely the latter point, if someone is speaking supposedly 'from the inside', one needs to know who they are to be sure they aren't just making it up. And one can hardly expect moderators to be able to check such things in the way that is expected of newspaper editors. To take your example, supposing someone is claiming that there is systematic racism in an orchestra management, someone could post that here, but it would be a major undertaking on the part of a moderator to investigate that claim - furthermore, potentially the orchestra management could sue, and the board (not just the individual poster) would be liable. Is that a realistic course of action that the mods here would be likely to take? And how would they know whether or not the poster has other axes to grind?

Also, for all I might agree with some of the sentiments expressed, I find the use of a pseudonym to initiate this thread extremely cowardly.
« Last Edit: 12:53:02, 10-07-2008 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
A
*****
Posts: 4808



« Reply #119 on: 12:55:53, 10-07-2008 »


I think it is reasonable that we call ourselves what we wish. We actually have no proof that the people who are so "courageous" as to call themselves a real name are who they say they are. I could say I was anyone, anyone at all .. would that be better than just keeping my own identity private?

I think people like to post their thoughts not their so called amazing musical qualifications as a reason that people should accept what they say.

If a person is called Joe Bloggs is their opinion worse than that of someone who tells us what a wonderful reputation he has?

I think not.

A
Logged

Well, there you are.
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 11
  Print  
 
Jump to: