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Author Topic: Re: Anonymity/Pseudonyms on MBs  (Read 1260 times)
Ian Pace
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« Reply #15 on: 12:41:56, 09-07-2008 »

Over half this board's members use pseudonyms or incomplete names. Clearly you hold them all in contempt. I suspect others beside myself find your attitude arrogant and egotistical.
Do you really think I'm the only person who has a low opinion of the use of pseudonyms on messageboards? Or that the view of the tiny subculture represented by this board is more important than anything else? This is a board made up of primarily middle class Britons (with a few exceptions) whose primary musical interest is classical - those factors bring with them a plethora of ideological assumptions, which are actually very marginal in a wider context.

Irrelevant answer. The point of contention is your objectionable attitude towards those on this board who use pseudonyms.
And you think that to have any opinion on the use of pseudonyms, one that is not shared by the majority of posters, is de facto 'arrogant and egotistical', then? For one who claims to be on the left, you seem very set on enforced conformity within the context of some very small and utterly unrepresentative subset of people.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Mary Chambers
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« Reply #16 on: 12:49:55, 09-07-2008 »

I think it's a great pity that this thread, started by Janthefan as (I imagine) a bit of fun and out of mild curiosity, should have been turned into something so earnest.

If there are any more interesting pseudonyms out there, can we hear about them? If their owners are brave enough to post, that is  Grin.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #17 on: 12:50:08, 09-07-2008 »

And, in response to autoharp's point, if people's opinions here are sufficiently half-formed, etc., that they aren't prepared to put their real name to them, why should they be accorded any particular weight by those who read them?
I've never expected any comments I've made to be given any particular weight because of who I am (or actually for any other reason Cheesy). But the suggestion that opinions should be accorded special weight because of the authority of the person making them seems a rather un-Ian Pace thing to say.    

Quote
I think many of you are simply cowards, whatever other reasons are given.

Such bravery on one's own account is one thing but there is the point made by HtoHe about outing other people, unintentionally or not, in the process. You have said some quite detailed and personal things about some of your students and about your, and others', assessments of them (for example on the 'Upsets' thread) which, I have to say, struck me as sailing very close to the wind. The fact that you were doing it under your own, googlable, name would have made it that much easier for the individuals concerned, and their peers, to identify who was being talked about. I'm not saying that is in itself an argument for posters' anonymity but it does mean that using one's own name has implications for others as well.
« Last Edit: 15:18:58, 09-07-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
strinasacchi
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« Reply #18 on: 12:54:32, 09-07-2008 »

When I say that I write down half-formed ideas, I don't mean that I'm being woolly for the sake of it.  I find this forum very interesting and useful for developing ideas.  It's often easier to figure out one's own point of view if one has the chance to play off other people's thoughts.  It's especially good, from my perspective as a performer in a very insular world, to read what a broader spectrum of people have to say.  So I don't want to write a fully-formed thesis every time I have something on my mind.

Other times I just don't have the time to write more than a few scattered ideas, hoping that someone will find them interesting, and pick them up and run.  I really enjoy reading the results of those.

But I choose to do so under a pseudonym because I want to make it absolutely clear to everyone, whether they actually know who I am or not, and including not least myself, that those kernels or semi-formed ideas are not necessarily what I'm about as a performer - or, maybe more importantly, as a rehearser.  I think that choice ought to be given, if not respect, at least a lack of contempt.

********************************

Just read George's post - the second point particularly strikes a chord.  I try to avoid saying much about my colleagues here anyway, but if I do I don't want to expose them unwittingly to publicity they may not have wanted.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #19 on: 13:02:41, 09-07-2008 »

I've never expected any coments I've made to be given any particular weight because of who I am (or actually for any other reason Cheesy). But the suggestion that opinions should be accorded special weight because of the authority of the person making them seems a rather un-Ian Pace thing to say.    
No, I'm not referring to the authority of the person concerned, actually thinking more negatively, in terms of the fact that their own personal stake in the matters concerned might lead some to interpret what they say differently.

Quote
You have said some quite detailed and personal things about some of your students and about your, and others', assessments of them (for example on the 'Upsets' thread) which, I have to say, struck me as sailing very close to the wind. The fact that you were doing it under your own, googlable, name would have made it that much easier for the individuals concerned, and their peers, to identify who was being talked about. I'm not saying that is in itself an argument for posters' anonymity but it does mean that using one's own name has implications for others as well.
You'll note that I would never name a student; the incident in question referred to a presentation in an open research seminar (i.e. not referring to private work, which I hadn't seen at that point, and wouldn't comment on in public if I had), and the very real issues of what level of discourse is acceptable for someone looking to gain a PhD, applicable way beyond the confines of one single institution. Or if you're thinking of the cutting incident, that wasn't one of my students, I was just a spectator in the audience - and it was also a public performance.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Ian Pace
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« Reply #20 on: 13:06:23, 09-07-2008 »

I try to avoid saying much about my colleagues here anyway, but if I do I don't want to expose them unwittingly to publicity they may not have wanted.
Same here - I don't talk about my university colleagues, other than perhaps in odd general allusions; but if anything were to be said in a public arena about them, it would be awful to do so from behind a pseudonym. Just to continue the point made by George - when we are talking about higher education in general (which is more common on M&S than here), it's very difficult to make a point without some reference to actual experience - but that of course certainly doesn't mean naming students.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
thompson1780
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« Reply #21 on: 13:07:14, 09-07-2008 »

And, in response to autoharp's point, if people's opinions here are sufficiently half-formed, etc., that they aren't prepared to put their real name to them, why should they be accorded any particular weight by those who read them?

For me there's a question here about the process of reaching understanding.

One valid use of this forum is to have a good old classical debate with posters coming to the discussion with well-formed (fully formed?).  Understanding for participants may be reached about the context in which their firmly held belief is appropriate, or potentially no mutual understanding is reached, or potentially a firmly held belief is thrown out of the window becaus ethe otehr poster(s) is(are) so damn good in their argument.  'Watchers' may learn / understand as the argument goes on.

Another valid approach is that a poster may wish to share a germ of an idea and is willing to flex their opinion about it as things go on.  More like teaching by experiment / play.

I suspect that people adopt both strategies. I suspect that it is also difficult to tell when someone is posting something as a supossition or as a firm statement.  And hence readers may form a judgement of an individual on a false assumption.  (Without face to face connection, that sort of thing is difficult).  Over a very long time, I can imagine that participants get a good feeling for what the other memebrs are like, but this forum does allow 'outsiders' to get a snatch view based on one or two posts.

You know the rubbish that gets thrown at politicians 'cos they smoked dope in college?  Who cares?  They were in college, they were a different person then than the person who was elected.  The analogy is that a named individual may say something here, and get penalised for it in real life when in reality that individual has moved on to hold a different position.

Tommo
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #22 on: 13:07:23, 09-07-2008 »

I would imagine a few of us (me included, certainly) use this certain sections forum as a way of 'letting off steam'  about things that annoy us, in relation to colleagues, friends and family.  Personally, I need an outlet for a lot of my very negative feelings regarding some of the idiots, dolts and dunderheads I occasionally work with and it helps me to share my frustrations with the members of this forum, who are everything my colleagues are not.  As others have said, those who know me well enough to p-m me know my real identity, but I wouldn't feel comfortable about being 'outed' to the world at large, even though its unlikely (read: impossible) that anyone I complain about would be reading these boards.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #23 on: 13:10:12, 09-07-2008 »

But I choose to do so under a pseudonym because I want to make it absolutely clear to everyone, whether they actually know who I am or not, and including not least myself, that those kernels or semi-formed ideas are not necessarily what I'm about as a performer - or, maybe more importantly, as a rehearser.  I think that choice ought to be given, if not respect, at least a lack of contempt.

I agree wholeheartedly - and it's even more important for those like me whose professional profile and reputation (such as it is, but it does involve a small body of published work) is in a field that has nothing whatsoever to do with music. It's a personal judgement, of course, but I'd like to keep what perfect wagnerite writes here completely separate from what I do professionally.  I'd call it discretion rather than cowardice.
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
Ted Ryder
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« Reply #24 on: 13:11:16, 09-07-2008 »

 I have a rather good reason for not using my own name; it is the same as a well-known musician. It would be most embarrassing to said musician if my ramblings were, even for the briefest moment, taken to be his ramblings, and it happens that at the moment I am unavalible for recitals.
   I  chose Ryder when I was listening to Haydn quartets and Ted because I would quite liked to have been a Ted.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #25 on: 13:14:09, 09-07-2008 »

You know the rubbish that gets thrown at politicians 'cos they smoked dope in college?  Who cares?  They were in college, they were a different person then than the person who was elected.  
Well, if they are voting for draconian measures against others who do the same, then I do think it matters - same with the 'outing' of politicians who practise/have practised same sex activity, but vote for homophobic legislation, or those who preach morality, 'Back to Basics', at the same time as shagging their 20-something secretary.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Ian Pace
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« Reply #26 on: 13:15:45, 09-07-2008 »

But I choose to do so under a pseudonym because I want to make it absolutely clear to everyone, whether they actually know who I am or not, and including not least myself, that those kernels or semi-formed ideas are not necessarily what I'm about as a performer - or, maybe more importantly, as a rehearser.  I think that choice ought to be given, if not respect, at least a lack of contempt.

I agree wholeheartedly - and it's even more important for those like me whose professional profile and reputation (such as it is, but it does involve a small body of published work) is in a field that has nothing whatsoever to do with music. It's a personal judgement, of course, but I'd like to keep what perfect wagnerite writes here completely separate from what I do professionally.  I'd call it discretion rather than cowardice.
I do understand that, as you are not professionally involved in music, pw, but if this was a board dedicated to your own field, and in which a lot of comments were being made about others in that field, by others who work in that field, would you feel the same way?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
autoharp
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« Reply #27 on: 13:18:48, 09-07-2008 »

Over half this board's members use pseudonyms or incomplete names. Clearly you hold them all in contempt. I suspect others beside myself find your attitude arrogant and egotistical.
Do you really think I'm the only person who has a low opinion of the use of pseudonyms on messageboards? Or that the view of the tiny subculture represented by this board is more important than anything else? This is a board made up of primarily middle class Britons (with a few exceptions) whose primary musical interest is classical - those factors bring with them a plethora of ideological assumptions, which are actually very marginal in a wider context.

Irrelevant answer. The point of contention is your objectionable attitude towards those on this board who use pseudonyms.
And you think that to have any opinion on the use of pseudonyms, one that is not shared by the majority of posters, is de facto 'arrogant and egotistical', then? For one who claims to be on the left, you seem very set on enforced conformity within the context of some very small and utterly unrepresentative subset of people.

Irrelevant answer. Same reason as before.

My objection to what you have posted is perfectly clear and is to do with your superior attitude towards others on this board: that is what is arrogant and egotistical.

That's my final post on this point.
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thompson1780
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« Reply #28 on: 13:32:31, 09-07-2008 »

You know the rubbish that gets thrown at politicians 'cos they smoked dope in college?  Who cares?  They were in college, they were a different person then than the person who was elected.  
Well, if they are voting for draconian measures against others who do the same, then I do think it matters - same with the 'outing' of politicians who practise/have practised same sex activity, but vote for homophobic legislation, or those who preach morality, 'Back to Basics', at the same time as shagging their 20-something secretary.

OK, bad example.  I can appreciate your answergiven the "Well, if...." at the start of your answer.

But can I ask,

Do you expect everyone to be judged by previous positions they have held on a subject, regardless of how their position may differ now?

How does time between previous and current position fit into the consideration?

What does your answer mean specifically for users of this forum (when regarding it as something wider than just an industry forum)?

Thanks

Tommo
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thompson1780
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« Reply #29 on: 13:34:43, 09-07-2008 »

moderators / administrators

Sorry to cause more work, but would it possible to strip out appropriate answers under a thread entitled "Anonymity/Psuedonymity Discussion" to be placed in the Welcome section?

Thank you

Tommo

edit: addition of "/Psuedonymity"
« Last Edit: 14:06:19, 09-07-2008 by thompson1780 » Logged

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