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Milly Jones
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« Reply #5760 on: 17:59:51, 08-05-2008 » |
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Some words are very difficult to define. I've just refused to become embroiled in the definition of "classical" music and "like" over on TOP. "Spirituality" is another one. People usually know what is meant by any of these words in context. The "discussion", if you could call it that in TOP, began when someone mentioned Bessie Smith being played on Breakfast. I'd already had a similar discussion about Ella Fitzgerald previously. Basically, personally speaking, I'd rather not hear jazz singers on what is advertised as a classical programme. Some smartarse came back with words to the effect of "would Bessie Smith sound different on another channel?" Of course not and that wasn't my point at all. Why can't people just take posts at face value and leave it at that? He obviously took exception to being called 'smartarse' (  ) and came back with an attack on my lack of definition of "classical" music and the word "like".  It was only an opinion for heaven's sake and I'm sure he knew exactly what I meant really. |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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Antheil
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« Reply #5761 on: 18:39:07, 08-05-2008 » |
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I just wonder, when HRH The Prince of Wales, says how Tavener's work 'contains a profound spirituality that is rarely seen today' I wonder if what he means is that, to him, personally, it uplifts his spirits? Just a thought. There again, as the future Head of The CofE I guess he must know more about spirituality than most of us ......... Just another thought  My English teacher told me never to use the word 'nice'! |
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #5762 on: 18:40:57, 08-05-2008 » |
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Tavener certainly lifts up his own spirits, only to pour them down his throat immediately afterwards. My English teacher told me never to use the word 'nice'! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR3qbrUl3Zs&feature=related |
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« Last Edit: 18:43:00, 08-05-2008 by Ian Pace »
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Janthefan
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« Reply #5763 on: 18:57:18, 08-05-2008 » |
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My spirit has nothing to do with religion. I consider myself a spiritual person....I need to nourish my spirit just as much as anyone else, but I can't believe in the stuff religion puts forward, so I dont use that framework.
Hey!
GO FOR IT MILLY!
I read what you said at TOP...I'm with you all the way (except I dont like jazz at all, on any channel).
x Jan x
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Live simply that all may simply live
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Antheil
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« Reply #5764 on: 19:04:39, 08-05-2008 » |
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Music certainly has the power to lift ones spirits, even to the point of entering a trance like state of esctasy which they may think of being like imbued with The Holy Spirit (I was going to say possessed but as we are coming into Pentecost thought better of it!  ) and therefore, being as they are so uplifted they think it is spirituality that has done it? I do have the Protecting Veil, I bought it online by mistake thinking I was buying John Tave rner! |
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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #5765 on: 19:29:35, 08-05-2008 » |
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The "discussion", if you could call it that in TOP, began when someone mentioned Bessie Smith being played on Breakfast. I'd already had a similar discussion about Ella Fitzgerald previously. Basically, personally speaking, I'd rather not hear jazz singers on what is advertised as a classical programme. Some smartarse came back with words to the effect of "would Bessie Smith sound different on another channel?" Of course not and that wasn't my point at all. Why can't people just take posts at face value and leave it at that? He obviously took exception to being called 'smartarse' ( ) and came back with an attack on my lack of definition of "classical" music and the word "like". It was only an opinion for heaven's sake and I'm sure he knew exactly what I meant really. Was it just me, or when BBC Breakfast did an item this morning about five to seven-year-olds allowed unsupervised on the internet, did one or two posters on TOP spring to anybody else's mind? |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #5766 on: 19:34:16, 08-05-2008 » |
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My spirit has nothing to do with religion. I consider myself a spiritual person....I need to nourish my spirit just as much as anyone else, but I can't believe in the stuff religion puts forward, so I dont use that framework.
Hey!
GO FOR IT MILLY!
I read what you said at TOP...I'm with you all the way (except I dont like jazz at all, on any channel).
x Jan x Thanks Jan. I agree with you about spirit and religion also. Spirituality is very hard to define though. I suppose I'd define it as my, hopefully, nobler "essence". It's from that quiet darkness of within me wherefrom I try and reach for higher things. It's nothing to do with man-made rules or religious dogma. It needs nourishment and I do it with meditation, soul-searching, listening to music, art and literature. I pray as well but I've no idea if anyone's listening. I don't think it matters really. and therefore, being as they are so uplifted they think it is spirituality that has done it? Anty, I think the uplifted feeling that you get with music or the beauty of nature for example and spirituality itself are actually connected. It's one and the same feeling, a joining or liaison with some higher essence or "mind". Ahem. I'll get me strait-jacket. |
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We pass this way but once. This is not a rehearsal!
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offbeat
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« Reply #5767 on: 22:02:54, 08-05-2008 » |
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For me spirituality is when i feel out of my present self into a higher being - something instinctive but hard to pin down
Musicwise i get this feeling with something like Bruckners 7th symphony or many of the religious works of Arvo Part (although not too sure about John Tavener)-I think maybe nowadays its a word overused and not always true but it makes me feel good anyway !!!
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #5768 on: 22:08:26, 08-05-2008 » |
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And that's fine, offbeat. It's just that the word is overused.
There is the matter of not only feeling good, but trying to act lovingly to others, however difficult they may be. That is eminently spiritual.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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marbleflugel
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« Reply #5769 on: 09:30:27, 09-05-2008 » |
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Beautifully put Don. I think Boulez could be described as an existentialist, and Martin Buber was a sometime priest like several others in the psychotheraputic traidition, who I guess wanted to go deeper into the humanistic/ scientific/ nat phil aspect than his initial training took him. Whichever hack wrote the phrase which Richard rightly questions is arguing from modish neologism I'd suggest -the consumer downside of New Age thinking, as opposed to the ocasional questing upside.
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'...A celebrity is someone who didn't get the attention they needed as an adult'
Arnold Brown
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Bryn
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« Reply #5770 on: 09:48:12, 09-05-2008 » |
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But it also annoys me when people use words out of their original context.
I certainly don't like sloppy use of language, but contexts change and words acquire new associations and the meanings shift. Silly, as just used by Pim, was originally much nearer to the German selig - blessed. Hence the Tudor Christmas poem "Behold a silly, tender babe." From there it came to mean simple, and from there stupid. Nice now means vaguely pleasant. (It is a very English word. I imagine any foreign equivalent will carry much more enthusiasm.) It originally meant precise - a nice distinction. The ensemble A nice dilemma we have here in Trial by Jury shows how it changed its meaning. From precise it came to mean neat, and then what Bill Bryson would call kinda neat. And how about "silly billy"? Was that not originally "Sailor Billy", a reference to William IV's naval bent? |
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #5771 on: 09:57:19, 09-05-2008 » |
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Martin Buber was a sometime priest
Er, marbs, Buber was definitely Jewish. Do you mean a rabbi? Thanks for the compliment. |
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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brassbandmaestro
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« Reply #5772 on: 09:59:59, 09-05-2008 » |
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My English teacher told me never to use the word 'nice'!
Mine did too!! Is quite a good idea to use other words in this languagae of ours. so many people do use THAT word and makes that person sound sooo brusque at times(if that the right word to use) |
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marbleflugel
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« Reply #5773 on: 18:04:32, 09-05-2008 » |
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Thanks for correcting me Don, I was too far from the Golders Green drift on a Friday to recall.
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'...A celebrity is someone who didn't get the attention they needed as an adult'
Arnold Brown
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #5774 on: 10:47:58, 10-05-2008 » |
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Thanks for correcting me Don, I was too far from the Golders Green drift on a Friday to recall.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
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