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Author Topic: The Grumpy Old Rant Room  (Read 150226 times)
George Garnett
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« Reply #6630 on: 11:52:40, 22-07-2008 »

r, i mean ah, or possibly Ah. Goddit. Cheesy

I'm fairly certain the law is that the mere possession of a telly doesn't by itself require a licence. The BBC itself accepts that (although it had to be dragged out of them by an FOI request  Roll Eyes). The most recent set of Regulations says:

Quote
"television receiver" means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose.


It's whether or not is used for that purpose that counts. (And the legal interpretation of 'or' in that sentence means that the 'installed' goes with 'for the purpose of ...' just as much as the 'used ' does.) Simply having one in a cupboard or used for playing DVDs or indeed any other exotic use other than that of "receiving ... a television programme service" doesn't require a licence.

[I assume it is the, er, prisoner in the dock's own telly and not one that came with the house. If the latter then, cough, I suppose it could just be argued by a hostile counsel that 'it' was installed for the purpose of ... ]
« Last Edit: 12:23:32, 22-07-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
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« Reply #6631 on: 12:00:10, 22-07-2008 »

"any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose."

Sounds to me like a pretty good description of a computer hooked up to the internet and able to view iPlayer...
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Morticia
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« Reply #6632 on: 12:03:00, 22-07-2008 »

A friend of mine had her television disemboweled of all fiddly bits that enable us to watch moving pictures as broadcast by Auntie and others. She used it only for watching videos. It baffled the Licensing boffins for a while but in the end they gave up and stopped pestering her to pay up.
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George Garnett
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« Reply #6633 on: 12:08:52, 22-07-2008 »

Sounds to me like a pretty good description of a computer hooked up to the internet and able to view iPlayer...

Nervous cough. I believe it is. I think it was first put there to cover cable telly (I may wrong on that) but, yes, it would seem to cover telly through the internet. I'm not sure there's been a legal case to test it though. There might be a separate argument about whether a relevant distinction could be made there between watching 'live streaming' on the internet (requiring a licence) and watching previously broadcast material (possibly not requiring a licence - if you could prove you only ever watched that  Undecided). 
« Last Edit: 12:22:27, 22-07-2008 by George Garnett » Logged
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« Reply #6634 on: 13:06:54, 22-07-2008 »

I suppose the crucial thing would be the definition of a "television programme service" - if that was circumscribed to refer only to live broadcasts that would cover it I imagine (iPlayer doesn't actually broadcast TV live, does it?).

<memory kicks in> Hold on, I think I saw something about this in the Times the other day (and didn't actually read it at the time); oh yes, here it is.

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A spokesman for TV Licensing said: “If you only watch the iPlayer, and watch or record no live programmes, you don’t need a television licence, although very few people are likely to do that.” That follows from a long-standing exemption that also applies to purchased DVDs and videos.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #6635 on: 13:18:05, 22-07-2008 »

This is all very interesting. I think I am in the clear. They did actually "come round" to the house last year though, and I was able to show them that at the time it contained not only no TV set, but no furniture either apart from an inflatable mattress and a chair I'd brought in from the garden. The esprit de l'escalier told me I should have told them with a wry chuckle that everything had just been repossessed by the bailiffs.

They also came round many years ago to a house I'd until recently been sharing, and in which I'd left my TV set behind, intending to drop in and pick it up at some unspecified point. My ex-housemate shut the door in their face, then took the TV out into the garden and smashed it to pieces with a sledgehammer.
« Last Edit: 13:26:25, 22-07-2008 by richard barrett » Logged
harmonyharmony
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« Reply #6636 on: 20:57:26, 23-07-2008 »

On my return to my flat I've noticed that the noise when someone else in the tenement flushes their toilet seems to have been AMPLIFIED considerably. It has gone from sounding like a rat is running down the wall to sounding like someone is emptying a bucket into my bath. How annoying yet fundamentally trivial.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #6637 on: 11:42:16, 24-07-2008 »

I thought in Edinburgh they just emptied the slop buckets in the streets.  To deter passing body snatchers.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #6638 on: 11:42:50, 24-07-2008 »

I'm feeling quite seriously grumpy this morning.  I should be just getting off a bus in London about now, ready to meet some friends for lunch and, afterwards, make my way to the day queue for Sudbin's Rachmaninov 1.  Instead I'm at my desk 200 miles away, largely because of the incompetence of National Express.  I went through the process of booking my day return (out 0630 back 2330) yesterday evening and got right through to putting in my card details and clicking 'pay' only to get the message 'this coach is full'.  I can cope with bad luck, but this is clearly incompetence/ignorance on the company's part.  The online booking system was still inviting people to book this bus for hours afterwards - so how long the bus had been full when I 'booked' is anyone's guess.  The worst thing of all, though, is that it doesn't seem to have been a glitch.  I was told by their customer support people that the online booking system is designed that way; and if taking people's details when there is no ticket available isn't illegal, it should be.  

To cap it all, in order to have the day free I'd promised to complete any work due today before I left - so I still had to work until after midnight in case people were counting on getting the work early.  Grrrr.....
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martle
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« Reply #6639 on: 11:45:37, 24-07-2008 »

That's one serious grump, HtoHe. Sympathies.  Angry
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #6640 on: 12:10:02, 24-07-2008 »

When will they invent reliable teleportation devices? Then our woes with the public transit systems of the world will be once and for all behind us.
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martle
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« Reply #6641 on: 12:15:11, 24-07-2008 »

When will they invent reliable teleportation devices? Then our woes with the public transit systems of the world will be once and for all behind us.

Well quite, Turfers.



Some northern Prommers arriving at Kensington Gore, c. 2100
« Last Edit: 12:18:10, 24-07-2008 by martle » Logged

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oliver sudden
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« Reply #6642 on: 12:32:23, 24-07-2008 »

Thought experiment: someone does indeed come up with a teleportation system that is unexpectedly cheap and simple to introduce, and could do away with the automobile entirely. There's just one small problem: it will kill between 750,000 and 1,000,000 people a year worldwide. Think anyone would be up for it?

Well, that's what cars do...

http://www.factbook.net/EGRF_Exec_Summary.htm
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #6643 on: 12:44:13, 24-07-2008 »

Thought experiment: someone does indeed come up with a teleportation system that is unexpectedly cheap and simple to introduce, and could do away with the automobile entirely. There's just one small problem: it will kill between 750,000 and 1,000,000 people a year worldwide. Think anyone would be up for it?

Well, that's what cars do...
Really? But is that ALL they do? They also get us from place to place, usually. Still, I'd prefer teleportation. Doesn't cause quite as much Rückenschmerzen.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #6644 on: 13:31:16, 24-07-2008 »

Of course Radio 3 will 'teleport' me there, so all is not lost.  And it's not as if I'd paid for tickets in advance or anything.  I just though that, having been favourably impressed by Mr Sudbin when he played for our concert society, it was worth the effort and expense to attend this Prom in person.  The coach is the only public transport that could have got me back at my desk for a Friday morning (night trains having been discontinued many years ago) and, at £25 day return, is quite reasonably priced.  I suppose I could have come down by train and got the night bus back (assuming that isn't also full) but the cost of such mix 'n' match transport, especially at short notice, is prohibitive.

I've just had a reply from the OFT (I copied them on my complaint to National Express) giving details of bodies I can write to whose intervention might make NE take this customer's complaint seriously.  They also assured me that details of my experience are stored on a database in case they do decide to investigate the company.  It's not much, but it's more than I've had from NE who, so far, haven't even acknowledged my complaint.
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