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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #15 on: 16:00:41, 07-12-2007 » |
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Definitely a silver rather than a golden soprano in tone, she could spin a line of the most exquisite and apparently effortless delicacy.
Absolutely - her performance of Rejoice Greatly with Beecham (I haven't heard the Boult) is one of the most purely joyous pieces of singing I have ever heard, the voice almost dancing through the semiquaver runs. A radiant and utterly unforgettable performance. |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #16 on: 17:14:02, 07-12-2007 » |
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And, as the antidote to a surfeit of authenticism,
I fail to see a surfeit of authenticism on this thread. Most posts have been about "modern" recordings. Which is odd, seeing as Donna Elvira's original post specified that it would be nice to have a recording on period instruments. |
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BobbyZ
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« Reply #17 on: 20:53:08, 07-12-2007 » |
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William Christie and Les Arts Florissants with Barbara Schlick, Mark Padmore, Sandrine Piau, Andreas Scholl and Nathan Berg. Suits my tastes.
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Dreams, schemes and themes
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Donna Elvira
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« Reply #18 on: 13:25:01, 10-12-2007 » |
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Thanks, Bobby. Sounds like a good line-up of soloists (I'll try to bear with Scholl!!) and I have a lot of respect for William Christie. I persevered with the Christophers recording but it really didn't meet expectations.
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #19 on: 16:31:13, 30-12-2007 » |
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The 12/8 version of Rejoice is indeed Handel, although Watkins Shaw publishes it in the appendix. I must say I prefer 4/4. Without going into all the detail it's fair to say that there is no such thing as a single standard Messiah text. (Even leaving aside the usual omissions which are purely the conductor's choice.)
Incidentally Harry Christophers recorded messiah with Huddersfield C S about 12 years ago in the Mozart version, released with BBC Music Magazine.
I have the Dunedin consort version and they use the original 12/8 version of 'Rejoice'. It is good but I prefer Handel's later solution in 4/4. William Christie's it rather weak and the sound quality overall very stingy. I think Pinnock's Messiah will never be surpassed however. Messiah is one of the ultimate tests for the interpreter, and a good rendition is about as rare as Poppies on the Moon. |
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« Last Edit: 16:33:01, 30-12-2007 by Rod Corkin »
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #20 on: 17:19:59, 30-12-2007 » |
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If you're only going to have one recording of Messiah then I wouldn't recommend it, but the all-male version from Naxos is well worth a try, with the choir of New College Oxford and the Academy of Ancient Music. The choir and orchestra are on good form. The boy soloists sing very well, although people will probably prefer to hear women most of the time in those pieces. The other soloists sing well enough but there are many other recordings with better ones.
On the BBC Radio 3 board there's an interesting discussion about what parts of Messiah to cut in a performance, given that that's what usually happens. I would tend to look at part two as the one problem I have with Messiah is the long catalogue of grief and sorrow therein.
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #21 on: 17:42:18, 30-12-2007 » |
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If you're only going to have one recording of Messiah then I wouldn't recommend it, but the all-male version from Naxos is well worth a try, with the choir of New College Oxford and the Academy of Ancient Music. The choir and orchestra are on good form. The boy soloists sing very well, although people will probably prefer to hear women most of the time in those pieces. The other soloists sing well enough but there are many other recordings with better ones.
On the BBC Radio 3 board there's an interesting discussion about what parts of Messiah to cut in a performance, given that that's what usually happens. I would tend to look at part two as the one problem I have with Messiah is the long catalogue of grief and sorrow therein.
I fail to see the issue with Part 2 whatever is used. There is one issue and one only with Messiah. The almost complete inability of conductors and soloists to provide even a half decent account of it. |
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #22 on: 00:58:13, 31-12-2007 » |
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There is one issue and one only with Messiah. The almost complete inability of conductors and soloists to provide even a half decent account of it.
Would you care to expand on this, Corky? I haven't heard the Pinnock version but I'm curious to know why it is unlikely to be surpassed when just about every other interpretion is barely half decent, in your view. I think my least favourite is by Solti on Decca. Far too precious about the whole thing (not the Solti we usually know). But I am fond of an LP of mine of highlights of Messiah by the choir of Ely Cathedral with invited soloists (including two women) and just an organ for accompaniment, recorded in the 1970s. |
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« Last Edit: 01:45:42, 31-12-2007 by Tony Watson »
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opilec
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« Reply #23 on: 01:02:39, 31-12-2007 » |
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There is one issue and one only with Messiah.
And that is: cymbals or no cymbals?  |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #24 on: 01:33:37, 31-12-2007 » |
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So it's just like Bruckner 7 really... |
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George Garnett
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« Reply #25 on: 08:34:04, 31-12-2007 » |
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Or Barber's Adagio for Strings.
Once you've heard it with the "battling cymbals" interlude you never want to hear it any other way again.
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« Last Edit: 09:20:43, 31-12-2007 by George Garnett »
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #26 on: 08:40:02, 31-12-2007 » |
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There is one issue and one only with Messiah. The almost complete inability of conductors and soloists to provide even a half decent account of it.
Would you care to expand on this, Corky? I haven't heard the Pinnock version but I'm curious to know why it is unlikely to be surpassed when just about every other interpretion is barely half decent, in your view. I think my least favourite is by Solti on Decca. Far too precious about the whole thing (not the Solti we usually know). But I am fond of an LP of mine of highlights of Messiah by the choir of Ely Cathedral with invited soloists (including two women) and just an organ for accompaniment, recorded in the 1970s. You haven't heard the Pinnock version?? You must be the only one! But for starters I don't even consider modern instrument recordings so that rules out the likes of Solti immediately. Corky recommends you buy Pinnock's at the first opportunity, especially the remastered re-release. But don't take my word for it, read these reviews (but ignore the Amazon.com contribution): http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Messiah-Tomlinson-English-Concert/dp/B0000057DB |
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #27 on: 11:48:38, 31-12-2007 » |
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I have to say I have not got any recording of Messiah. It crops up so frequently, I know it quite well and I would rather spend my limited pennies on some of the more sumptuous and cheeky oratorios that I don't know.
And Bach's Christmas Oratorio is far more Christmassy and beautiful to my mind.
And Rob, please answer Tony's perfectly fair question. Why do you, (not some online reviewer) like the Pinnock? And why does everyone else get it so wrong? I am confused.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #28 on: 15:50:08, 01-01-2008 » |
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I have to say I have not got any recording of Messiah. It crops up so frequently, I know it quite well and I would rather spend my limited pennies on some of the more sumptuous and cheeky oratorios that I don't know.
And Bach's Christmas Oratorio is far more Christmassy and beautiful to my mind.
And Rob, please answer Tony's perfectly fair question. Why do you, (not some online reviewer) like the Pinnock? And why does everyone else get it so wrong? I am confused.
The reasons I like it are the same reasons why the other reviewers like it and this is why this is the most generally respected recording currently available. Pinnock's vision is grand but never labours the task, no eccentric tempi to be found, the orchestra is excellent, the chorus is great, the sound quality is perfect, the soloists sound committed... What other recording can you say has all of these features? I certainly haven't heard any. Which may explain why you have never felt the urge to buy a Messiah CD. Don't waste your money something like the Christmas Oratorio, get the real deal not the pretender. |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #29 on: 16:35:52, 01-01-2008 » |
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Don't waste your money something like the Christmas Oratorio, get the real deal not the pretender.
Do you know a bloke named Mumblesford, Corky?? I have to say that you've thrown down the glove for Idiotic Remark of 2008, before even 17 hours of the year are out. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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