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Donna Elvira
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« on: 13:38:19, 06-12-2007 » |
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As it's coming up to Christmas, I thought I'd have Messiah on in the car so I dug out a recording which I purchased at the Handel House Museum some time ago. It's performed by The Sixteen, conducted by Harry Christophers, with Lynne Dawson among the soloists (Hyperion label). What a disappointment! There are times when the basses in the chorus sound like a load of old navvies. I'm not keen on the counter-tenor (David James) either but, then again, I can't say that counter-tenors are really my cup of tea.  More importantly, I got to 'Rejoice greatly' yesterday and found that, instead of the usual semi-quavers, I was listening to triplets. Can someone confirm what Handel actually wrote, please? I've never heard the triplets before, nor seen them in a score. Most disconcerting! While I'm at it, has anyone got a recording they could recommend to me? I have to admit to a sneaky liking for Malcolm Sargent and the Huddersfield Choral Society but it would be nice to have a recording with period instruments. |
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roslynmuse
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« Reply #1 on: 14:09:29, 06-12-2007 » |
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The 12/8 version of Rejoice is indeed Handel, although Watkins Shaw publishes it in the appendix. I must say I prefer 4/4. Without going into all the detail it's fair to say that there is no such thing as a single standard Messiah text. (Even leaving aside the usual omissions which are purely the conductor's choice.)
Incidentally Harry Christophers recorded messiah with Huddersfield C S about 12 years ago in the Mozart version, released with BBC Music Magazine.
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Andy D
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« Reply #2 on: 14:52:05, 06-12-2007 » |
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Although I'm a real Bah Humbug! when it comes to Christmas, I do like to play the Messiah at this time of year. It was one of the first things I bought on CD in 1987/88 - not necessarily the best but there weren't many recordings available on CD at the time: John Eliot Gardiner with Monteverdi Choir, English Baroque Soloists http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Marshall-Monteverdi-Soloists-Gardiner/dp/B0000040VUIt's using period instruments but was a bit of a rip-off - as lots of boxed sets were in those days - since it spreads onto 3 full-price CDs when it could easily fit onto 2.  I've also got a recording on tape made from Radio 3 direct from the Town Hall, Birmingham 14/12/76. |
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« Last Edit: 15:13:46, 06-12-2007 by Andy D »
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Donna Elvira
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« Reply #3 on: 15:52:20, 06-12-2007 » |
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Thanks, roslynmuse. Should have realised it was 12/8, not triplets!  Yes, I had considered the Gardiner - might be a bit cheaper now! I've heard the Mozart version (and, being a Mozart kind of gal, I love it). The only quibble I have with it is that it uses a clarinet instead of the original trumpet in the descending semiquavers before 'King of Kings' in the 'Hallelujah' chorus. For me, that's just GOT to be played on the trumpet. |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #5 on: 23:23:52, 06-12-2007 » |
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This was a work I hated as a child, probably because I first heard it on 78's of the Huddersfield Choral Society, huge, ponderous and oh so pious: the arrival during the sixties of the Davis and the Mackerras versions were a complete revelation with their pared-down forces, brisk tempi and, in the latter case, scholarly though exotic attention to ornamentation, though I've never got round to replacing either on CD. The nice folk at Decca sent three copies of the Hogwood (Dublin) version to the Hi-fi shop when I worked there: one stayed as a demo set, but one of the others became a Ron possession, and it's still the version I listen to the most, although last week I did pick up the Christophers BBC Mozart arrangement for 99p per disc from the British Heart Foundation Shop in Arbroath (at present they're sitting on the "play soon" pile).
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #6 on: 23:25:50, 06-12-2007 » |
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For me, that's just GOT to be played on the trumpet.
I have a clarinet that might change your mind. Although Mozart didn't.  It's the one on the right. |
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Bryn
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« Reply #7 on: 23:55:34, 06-12-2007 » |
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Thanks, roslynmuse. Should have realised it was 12/8, not triplets! Yes, I had considered the Gardiner - might be a bit cheaper now! I've heard the Mozart version (and, being a Mozart kind of gal, I love it). The only quibble I have with it is that it uses a clarinet instead of the original trumpet in the descending semiquavers before 'King of Kings' in the 'Hallelujah' chorus. For me, that's just GOT to be played on the trumpet. Oh you say clarina, and I say clarinet.  |
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« Last Edit: 23:58:50, 06-12-2007 by Bryn »
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Donna Elvira
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« Reply #8 on: 07:31:44, 07-12-2007 » |
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Thanks for all the replies. There's certainly a lot to think about there.
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iwarburton
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« Reply #9 on: 12:37:07, 07-12-2007 » |
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We've got Colin Davis' old recording with the LSO, circa 1966. Very brisk tempi but includes the numbers usually omitted. Fine by us.
Ian.
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John W
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« Reply #10 on: 12:59:58, 07-12-2007 » |
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I've always enjoyed Messiah because it is in English  I have a couple of vinyl boxed sets (OK, clumsy to play, but still do), one on DG (LSO, Donath, Burrows) and favourite one on Decca with Joan Sutherland, Grace Bumbry Kenneth McKellar, David Ward, Boult/LSO. |
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rauschwerk
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« Reply #11 on: 13:07:31, 07-12-2007 » |
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I have always liked the Davis version and well remember what controversy it aroused in 1966. It has the longer, and quite rarely recorded, version of "Why do the nations?", virtuosically sung by John Shirley-Quirk. I enjoy also Hogwood (especially for Emma Kirkby's "But who may abide?") and Suzuki. But both of these have David Thomas as bass, to whose sound some are allergic. I agree that Christophers is not much cop - I bought it, heard it once and sold it! Too slow for my liking.
A few years ago I was pleased to pick up a CD transfer of the version I was brought up on - Beecham's second recording of 1947. For me, the chief glory of this set is the remarkably pure-toned singing of Elsie Suddaby. But I would not have that as my only version.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #12 on: 14:50:20, 07-12-2007 » |
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And, as the antidote to a surfeit of authenticism, there's always Beecham's final version, as orchestrated by Eugene Goosens, complete with heavy brass and battery of percussion (including anvil). Although at times the effect is rather evocative of a maiden aunt who, having over indulged in the cooking sherry, applies far too much rouge before Christmas Dinner, at others it's a really over-the-top, rousing, indulgent treat. And you'd have to go a long way to beat the solo line up - especially the sublime (and grossly underrated) Jennifer Vyvyan and Jon Vickers.
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #13 on: 15:20:29, 07-12-2007 » |
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Can anyone say why Messiah is associated so much with Christmas? I realise Part 1 is, but Part 2 is about the Passion and Easter.
I am very grateful that I never knew it when I was growing up, and was given the Mackerras recording (for Christmas) as a teenager, with Janet Baker.
I prefer Semele and Susanna.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #14 on: 15:41:49, 07-12-2007 » |
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I can't but agree about the grossly underrated Jennifer Vyvyan, who also appears on one of Boult's recordings. At least Britten recognised her wonderful qualities; it's largely thanks to recordings of his music that we can still enjoy her art. Definitely a silver rather than a golden soprano in tone, she could spin a line of the most exquisite and apparently effortless delicacy. I can still remember the first time I heard her voice on record - as the soprano soloist in the Spring Symphony, and I can still hear "The driving boy, beside his team" as I write. She had a wonderful stage presence, too: her Tytania in MND was an amazing character, light years away from the delicate sylph we often see: sassy, earthy and sexy, though her last appearance - as Mrs Julian in the (TV) premiere of Owen Wingrave seems strangely subdued unless you are aware that she was seriously unwell at the time, but bravely determined that she would 'do it for Ben'.
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