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martle
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« on: 10:32:05, 12-06-2007 » |
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Ok, package-pickers, like many around here I'm sure, I got the bumpf for this upgrade in the post yesterday. I didn't bother with Sib 4, since I thought (and still think) it was a rip-off. From what I've read about Sib 5, I'm not yet convinced this is any better. Call me old-fashioned, but I expect MAJOR improvements with an upgrade, not just a handful of fairly peripheral new features.
What do you all think?
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Green. Always green.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #1 on: 20:21:30, 12-06-2007 » |
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I have a few things that I'd like to see in a new version:
'Irrational' time signatures, because it can't be that hard surely? Even if it involves a playback plugin to correct for them (like quartertones).
Different bar lines in different parts (like a 'tick' barline in one part but normal ones for everyone else)
That will do for now, but I'll probably think of more in the future.
Sorry Martle - haven't tried it. Realise I've responded with a shopping list not a direct answer!
One good thing about Sibelius 4 is option to 'Select as Graphics' which makes including musical examples in a word-processed document 10 times easier. But dynamic parts? What's the point?
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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martle
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« Reply #2 on: 22:08:06, 12-06-2007 » |
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One good thing about Sibelius 4 is option to 'Select as Graphics' which makes including musical examples in a word-processed document 10 times easier. But dynamic parts? What's the point?
Exactly. What is one paying for??  |
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Green. Always green.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #3 on: 23:07:33, 12-06-2007 » |
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Also it encourages extreme laziness from composers.
I'm always telling students that they have to proof-read their parts.
Just because their scores look pretty, that doesn't guarantee that their instrumental parts will be.
I got really sick of the phrase 'but that's what Sibelius did and I couldn't change it'.
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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martle
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« Reply #4 on: 23:23:00, 12-06-2007 » |
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hh I've SO been there. |
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Green. Always green.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #5 on: 00:32:35, 14-06-2007 » |
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Just got a flier through the post about Sib 5 and I have to say that it doesn't look like a great improvement.
Mainly about playback and ease of part production.
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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martle
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« Reply #6 on: 09:08:16, 14-06-2007 » |
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Exactly (again). To me, that's not an upgrade, it's a package of fairly innocuous new features which could be sold (far less expensively) as plugins. They've got a cheek sometimes, those Finn boys. (But Sibelius remains the best programme by a mile, so the words 'short' and 'curlies' often come, unbidden, to mind.) |
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Green. Always green.
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increpatio
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« Reply #7 on: 12:10:31, 14-06-2007 » |
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There was I getting rather excited about it. But yeah, not much now that I think about it. Ideas hub would be handy, as would vst support. Panorama view, while useful, is about the closest thing to an absolute non-innovation I've ever come across in an upgrade.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #8 on: 12:24:31, 14-06-2007 » |
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Sibelius remains the best programme by a mile . . . That does not seem to be the unanimous opinion here: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53158Indeed Finale 2007 is much praised by some. We ourselves, who have in the past been users of Sibelius, are just now in the process of switching over to Finale in an at least tentative and experimental way - but it is far too soon for us to publish any worthwhile comparison. |
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« Last Edit: 03:08:54, 15-06-2007 by Sydney Grew »
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time_is_now
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« Reply #9 on: 13:34:26, 14-06-2007 » |
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They've got a cheek sometimes, those Finn boys. I think they've sold it, M. Last summer, so I don't know who's responsible for the new upgrade. Incidentally, I've just noticed 'Finn-ale' - that's slightly unfortunate branding, isn't it! |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #10 on: 15:55:41, 14-06-2007 » |
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I have a few things that I'd like to see in a new version:
'Irrational' time signatures, because it can't be that hard surely? Even if it involves a playback plugin to correct for them (like quartertones).
Different bar lines in different parts (like a 'tick' barline in one part but normal ones for everyone else)
(Just by the by, both of those are possible (one w/ a reasonably quick workaround, the other quite easily) in Finale.) |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #11 on: 16:02:10, 14-06-2007 » |
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This is all very interesting, being as how I shall have to invest in one of these infernal programmes before very long, despite having kept them completely out of my sheltered life until now. I've been told that Finale would probably suit my needs better than Sibelius (and Score better than either, but I don't believe that's available or supported any more - that's what the excellent Notengrafik Berlin guys made up my last orchestral score with, have a look at one page here: http://www.notengrafik.com/pdf/Barrett.pdf). Any opinions on this from anyone who might have some idea of what "my needs" are would be gratefully received... |
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Colin Holter
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« Reply #12 on: 16:55:51, 14-06-2007 » |
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I think Sibelius scores look better right out of the box, but Finale (which seems to allow more powerful customization) can produce solid results if you take advantage of its greater flexibility. I do copying for a publisher and a number of individual clients, and I have yet to encounter a situation I can't handle one way or another in Finale. However, I must admit that it's taken me a matter of years to arrive at the best (i.e. non-kludge) solution for a couple of thorny notational challenges. Aaron Cassidy pushes Finale to its absolute limits - if he's still hanging around the boards, maybe he could share his perspective.
I'd also point out that making your own fonts can dramatically increase your computer engraving options, although it can also be a massive time sink.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #13 on: 17:00:02, 14-06-2007 » |
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I'm still using the now antiquated Sibelius 2, but as far as I know, later versions still do not do time-space notation (though I might be wrong on this). I imagine that wouldn't be so good from your perspective, Richard. Do Finale or Score offer this?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #14 on: 17:14:13, 14-06-2007 » |
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Aaron Cassidy pushes Finale to its absolute limits - if he's still hanging around the boards, maybe he could share his perspective.
I am indeed. Posted just above, in fact ... I was hanging out in Australia, then in Minneapolis, now back in Chicago working ... gasp! ... on some Finale stuff. (This, actually: http://www.aaroncassidy.com/music/pleats.htm) I'd also point out that making your own fonts can dramatically increase your computer engraving options, although it can also be a massive time sink.
Agreed. The composer Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf was, at one point, working on a rather substantial font project geared towards the needs of composers ... he had compiled an incredibly impressive array of symbols (making a lot of them himself). I have no idea whatever happened to that project. Anyone have an update? Re the actual topic at hand -- I'm an ambivalent supporter of Finale. (I should say, in the interest of full disclosure, that I used to do some Beta testing for them.) I find it flexible enough to do what I need to do, but I also know that it can be a bit counter-intuitive. I looked at switching to Sibelius 2-3 yrs ago (after being pretty miffed at how much Finale was being tailored to American high school band directors), but it really just couldn't do any of the things I needed it to do. For reasonably conventional scores, Sibelius really is the better choice; for anyone needing any real flexibility (and wanting more control over issues of look & feel, spacing, etc.), Finale is probably the better option. Though ... I haven't used Score in nearly a decade, so perhaps that's another viable option. I used Igor for awhile, but it was far too unstable and not particularly well supported. |
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