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Author Topic: Sibelius 5 (the prog, not the symph)  (Read 3982 times)
aaron cassidy
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« Reply #30 on: 22:19:58, 25-06-2007 »

Thanks, t_i_n.  Much appreciated.

For the record, I love teaching, and it was never something I saw as external to my work as a composer.  The institutional side of it did get me down a bit, particularly toward the end, but the teaching itself was always deeply affirming and exciting and energizing.  I imagine I'll come back to it some day .....
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time_is_now
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« Reply #31 on: 22:25:42, 25-06-2007 »

I'm sure you will, aaron. I think I'm struggling with the idea of academia myself at the moment - someone I spoke to the other day seemed to think it was an obvious place for me to be, which is the first time for 2 or 3 years that anyone'd actually said that.

I hadn't realised till today that you produced EXAUDI's NMC discs. Does that mean you come to England sometimes?
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
aaron cassidy
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« Reply #32 on: 23:05:15, 25-06-2007 »

I hadn't realised till today that you produced EXAUDI's NMC discs. Does that mean you come to England sometimes?

With some regularity, in fact, though not nearly as much as I'd like.  For awhile there it was 4-5x a year, but that's slowed, recently.

Hope you've enjoyed the EXAUDI discs.  We certainly had loads of fun making them!  There's a new one on its way (early autumn, I think?) ...



Right ... as this has absolutely nothing at all to do w/ Sibelius (symph nor prog), I shall stop and get back to work.  My apologies.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #33 on: 22:20:45, 03-07-2007 »

I bought Sib 4 recently enough to qualify for a free upgrade to Sib 5, which arrived today. I'm still in the lower reaches of the learning curve but still: Panorama may be a 'non-innovation' for some of us but for me it's much for comfortable than before. (I always hated the way tweaking a note position could make the whole page lurch out from under you...) Panorama is roughly equivalent to how it would be if decades after the invention of the word processor someone had finally come up with what Word calls 'Normal View'.

On the other hand the new start-up music is dreadful. Why Sibelius 3 when the obvious symphony to have used is full of great start-up anthems? And even then why did they pick that bit? And why the Naxos performance?

I haven't managed to produce a piece of music that I couldn't put on Sibelius yet.
It'll do time-space notation if you can put the time in to manipulating the space (sorry).

How, hh? I'd be very keen to know.
« Last Edit: 22:22:57, 03-07-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
harmonyharmony
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« Reply #34 on: 00:36:39, 04-07-2007 »

How, hh? I'd be very keen to know.
Oh, sorry. You emailed me with this question too.
I've been searching my hard-drive for an example of this to no avail.
The approach I took was to make sure that I knew what I wanted it to look like in the first place, and then tweak everything around in order to reflect that. It takes ages to do each page (and I was only doing it to see if I could - it might be on a network drive so I'll check that out when I have time) and you have to go between various different zoom levels, view various different rulers (and if I remember correctly, get your calculator out a few times) but it's possible. There's probably an easier way with other software...
That probably doesn't help in any way shape or form, but I hope it's at least marginally informative.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #35 on: 00:48:24, 04-07-2007 »

Ah. So it's the old hold-a-ruler-up-to-the-screen trick...  Undecided

Thanks for passing that on. But there must be a better way! Aaron tells me it's possible on Finale but even then you have to do the calculations yourself.

This is silly. The darned computer has all the information inside it anyway. So many composers (and occasional notators such as I) want the programs to be able to do this. And yet they don't.

Let's do something about it.

Let's whinge.

http://www.finalemusic.com/contacts.aspx
http://www.sibelius.com/documents/contact.html

Who knows, maybe one of them might listen...  Cool
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #36 on: 01:18:28, 04-07-2007 »

This has just gone off to Finale. A similar one is about to go off to Sibelius.

I know, homo sapiens non urinat in ventum and all. But if a bunch of us do it someone might listen.

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Dear friends,

Many composers nowadays notate their music in 'time-space', so that the amount of space a note takes up on the page is directly proportional to its duration. I have asked many composer and notator friends whether their software supports this practice. They all tell me either that their notator program requires a large amount of manual calculation to display music in this way, or that it is not possible with their current software at all.

I would be very interested in a notation program offering this feature as an option. It would be an important determining factor for my further software purchases. It can hardly be too complicated a matter - after all, the computer already has all the necessary numerical information.

Does Finale offer this feature or have any plans to do so?

Best regards,

Oliver Sudden.
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increpatio
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« Reply #37 on: 01:44:32, 04-07-2007 »

This has just gone off to Finale. A similar one is about to go off to Sibelius.

I know, homo sapiens non urinat in ventum and all. But if a bunch of us do it someone might listen.

Quote
Dear friends,

Many composers nowadays notate their music in 'time-space', so that the amount of space a note takes up on the page is directly proportional to its duration. I have asked many composer and notator friends whether their software supports this practice. They all tell me either that their notator program requires a large amount of manual calculation to display music in this way, or that it is not possible with their current software at all.

I would be very interested in a notation program offering this feature as an option. It would be an important determining factor for my further software purchases. It can hardly be too complicated a matter - after all, the computer already has all the necessary numerical information.

Does Finale offer this feature or have any plans to do so?

Best regards,

Oliver Sudden.

Oh; fantastic.  Do let us know what they reply.
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #38 on: 03:37:51, 04-07-2007 »

Ah. So it's the old hold-a-ruler-up-to-the-screen trick...  Undecided

Thanks for passing that on. But there must be a better way! Aaron tells me it's possible on Finale but even then you have to do the calculations yourself.

http://www.finalemusic.com/contacts.aspx
http://www.sibelius.com/documents/contact.html

Who knows, maybe one of them might listen...  Cool

Well, you don't -quite- have to do the calculations yourself, ruler-style.  What I do is determine the proper measure width/length, and then, yes, I do have to manually enter that information bar by bar, and then also set the page margins independently for each page.  It's not easy, but it's really no different at all from what I'd do were I making the score by hand (in determining the size of each bar), only w/ Finale I don't have to then _also_ determine the proper location of every notehead/stem in the bar.  I just set the measure widths, the margin widths, and the rest is done for me.



As for contacting Finale, good luck, my friend.  I've been sending them product suggestions for 8 years, and so far _2_ of my 100 or so suggestions have made it into the software.  This even includes the 2 yrs I was beta testing for them. 

Now, if you had a suggestion about getting wind band scores to playback on the computer in some really groovy way, they'd listen.  It's not software for composers; it's software for high school and church music conductors. 
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #39 on: 04:01:30, 04-07-2007 »

It's not software for composers; it's software for high school and church music conductors.

This is incorrect. No true composer needs "time-space notation." Indeed one of the first tests of a composer is the ability to notate his music in the traditional and normal way. To say that this is not software for "composers," that is, is an unacceptable and wanton redefinition of the word "composer."
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martle
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« Reply #40 on: 08:53:03, 04-07-2007 »

Who knows, maybe one of them might listen...  Cool

Ollie
Things may be different in reality now, but Sibelius make a bit of a thing about 'listening', and certainly in the past have acted on suggestions and complaints from users. My own small contribution a few years ago? Well, when you indicated a metronome mark 'c. [crotchet] = 56', say (as in short for 'circa' or approximately), that little 'c.' completely bugled up playback. Now, it doesn't! Oh, the feeling of achievement!
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Green. Always green.
oliver sudden
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« Reply #41 on: 11:26:58, 04-07-2007 »

Sibelius so far the first to reply. With this helpful little message.

Quote
Sehr geehrter Herr Plötzlich,

wir sind der Sibeliusvertrieb in Deutschland und antworten Ihnen daher.

Wenn Sie mir ein Notensatzbeispiel in der von Ihnen beschriebenen Notensatztechnik als Grafik oder PDF zusenden, dann kann ich mir dieses gerne einmal ansehen und etwas dazu sagen...

Bei weiteren Fragen können Sie auch unsere Hotline konsultieren. Diese erreichen Sie Mo-Fr in der Zeit zwischen 11-17 Uhr unter 030 789079 90. Fragen per Email an: support@m3c.de

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

********************************************************************
M3C Systemtechnik GmbH
Technischer Kundendienst
Michael Paulwitz
Großbeerenstr. 51 - 10965 Berlin

Den Kundendienst erreichen Sie Mo-Fr von 11-17 Uhr unter
Tel: (030) 789079 90 - Fax: (030) 785 68 49
Email: Support@m3c.de - Internet: http://www.m3c.de

Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin - Geschäftsführer: Johannes Biglmaier Handelsregister Berlin 25232 - Amtsgericht Charlottenburg

But Ha! If they think they can fob me off by sending me a message in Foreign they have another think coming! Cool

(To be fair, yes I do live in Germany. On the other hand I ordered Sibelius in English and my preferred language is registered with the Sib people as English so sending me a letter in German in response to a question asked in English at the international website is to my mind a bit of a Zumutung.)

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Indeed one of the first tests of a composer is the ability to notate his music in the traditional and normal way.

This is of course true. One of the first tasks of a composer after they have passed their 'first tests', however, is to ascertain if there might exist some other way which better corresponds to the manner in which they wish to convey information to the performer. Many who have done so have settled upon this proportional method, which would seem to be something a computer program could trivially easily support, and it's something that I as a performer very much welcome in music beyond a certain degree of rhythmic complexity. It is thus to my mind absurd that the currently available programs do not support it.

Member Cassidy's meaning was of course that the interests of composers are subsidiary to those of the other groups of musicians he mentioned. But I trust that that was clear to most.

Quote
It's not easy, but it's really no different at all from what I'd do were I making the score by hand

Come on, Aaron. We can aim higher than that! Wink
« Last Edit: 11:30:02, 04-07-2007 by oliver sudden » Logged
martle
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« Reply #42 on: 11:30:00, 04-07-2007 »

'Herr Plotzlich'??  Shocked
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #43 on: 11:34:33, 04-07-2007 »

Here is a vote of support for the Plötzliche Feldzug to have time-space notation available on Sibelius and Finale. It makes life much easier for the performer, especially when this is combined with notation of the tuplets (as in the case of Dench and Barrett).
« Last Edit: 11:36:06, 04-07-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
oliver sudden
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« Reply #44 on: 11:44:02, 04-07-2007 »

Come on then, folks: join in the Sudden Campaign! They don't make it easy to write to them but if a few of us do then we might have a better chance of them flinging the idea at a programmer and saying ''ere Fred, can you do a plugin for this?'...

(martle - I used my real name of course. Wink)
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