Fair enough, but that makes no difference to me. I'll continue chuntering away on the internet, with or without you. I regret your absence but have no control over which bit of the internet you choose to patronise.


I agree with both formulations. My 'gruesome algebra' is not mysterious or difficult to understand. I think it's better to have, say, 50,000 young black men in prison compared to 500,000. Zero would be better still. I'm convinced that 450,000 young men would agree with me, and not find my algebra the slightest bit 'gruesome'. Again, it's just a simple Enlightenment calculation aimed at minimising pain. I don't understand what you're getting so huffy about, but glad we agree on jolly old Baudrillard.

I rather feel that Mr. Grew may like these sentiments which were published in Punch in 1884:-

A female controversialist will tackle you quite gaily,
With scraps from Pearson on the Creed, or extracts culled from PALEY;
And, if you parry these homethrusts just like a wary fencer,
She'll floor you with some STUART MILL, or else with HERBERT SPENCER.
In fact, unless with all such lore you happen to be laden,
You'd better shun, if you've a chance, an educated maiden.

The Woman of The Future may be very learned-looking,
But dare we ask if she'll know aught of housekeeping or cooking;
She'll read far more, and that is well, than empty-headed beauties,
But has she studied with it all a woman's chiefest duties?

O pedants of these later days, who go on undiscerning,
To overload a woman's brain and cram our girls with learning,
You'll make a woman half a man, the souls of parents vexing,
To find that all the gentle sex this process is unsexing.
Leave one or two nice girls before the sex your system smothers,
Or what on earth will poor men do for sweethearts, wives, and mothers?

Ron, the magic year of 1908    On 28 October 1908, Suffragettes invaded Parliament.

After unfurling a banner, Muriel Matters and Helen Fox from the Women's Freedom League chained themselves to the grill of the Ladies' Gallery. The authorities had to remove the grill before the locks could be filed off in a committee room.

The  protest was one of three simultaneous protests by suffragettes in the House of Commons that day.  Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst both received 3 month prison sentences.

Oh, those were the days!!   You might enjoy this 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

Not much of an advance from being tied to a hot stove all day then?

We thank Madame Antheil for her reproduction of those excellent and entertaining verses. Thank goodness there is nothing gruesome to be found there!


In return may we draw members' attention to this amusing novel, The Revolt of Man, by Sir Walter Besant (deja-vu format or PDF format) - a short but pointed tale of gender reversal and age discrimination. Although written in 1882 it is set in 2082, after the "Great Transition" in which women have taken over most of the tasks of men, and men have assumed a mainly decorative function.

For Member Grew:

I recently read that the French reactionary writer Jules Amédée Barbey d’Aurevilly (1808-1889) said that giving votes to women is the best possible argument against universal suffrage.



I wonder what Member Grew thinks of Barbey's story Le Bonheur dans le Crime...?

Indeed - the nation whose constitution enshrines Enlightenment values more explicitly than any other.

Peter, I don't really understand your last post at all.