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Author Topic: Music in Higher Education  (Read 1418 times)
trained-pianist
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« Reply #75 on: 12:45:24, 10-09-2008 »

And while one is not teaching one has to hurry up with research or composition because if you did not finish your project you will not be able to do it during the term.
After you will forget your idea (say in a year from now) and will more or less have to start from scratch.
There is no time for vocations of any kind. People have nerveous break downs and many are depressed.
On the other hand people who worked in academia in the 70s - 80s  did very well, did not have to work in such a difficult conditions.
« Last Edit: 12:49:12, 10-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
A
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« Reply #76 on: 14:25:10, 10-09-2008 »

But academics need to rest his brains and to wait until good ideas will enter into his creative mind.
One can not get good ideas if one is doing one thing after another.

They need time when their ideas germinate and grow.


So, teachers don't need time 'when their ideas germinate and grow'?
So, teachers don't need time 'to rest his brains and wait until good ideas will enter his creative mind'?

This is the misconception , that teachers just work and academics ( although lots of teachers are academics ) do all this creative thinking and getting of ideas. Teachers have to think on their feet.

A
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A
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« Reply #77 on: 14:26:03, 10-09-2008 »

May be it looks to you that I am always watching my computer, but I had a good practice today, cleaned the upstairs of the house and cooked some lunch.

This is good diversion for me if I am getting tired.

When do you WORK though t-p?
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time_is_now
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« Reply #78 on: 14:30:19, 10-09-2008 »

That's very interesting, TF. Just one thought about the issue of whether businesses financing vocational courses, which of course does happen a-plenty - as, however, various companies need very particular focused skills, which differ in some particulars from company to company, and students may not have yet decided which precise field in wish they would like to work (and thus may go on to do something different from that for which they are specifically trained), might highly vocational education simply not be particularly economic from businesses' point of view, and they are served better by being able to employ students who have received a broader range of skills such as might have been obtained via more conventional university education (in some ways with a degree of independence of the subject they have studied)? With respect to Monteverdi/Madonna, I can see that many students learn certain information during their degree when they need to know it, then forget a good deal of it afterwards (there's plenty I've forgotten from my maths degree). But wider skills they might obtain, in terms of engaging with modes of reasoning, developing creative approaches to addressing problems, sometimes working within groups, even mediating between theory and practice, are things that can be fruitfully used in all sorts of fields of life. A question that then occurs to me is whether these sorts of skills might be obtained more readily and enthusiastically if working on a field in which they are more likely to be interested?
I found TF's comments very interesting, too: thanks, TF!

In regard to the last bit of your post, Ian, I think this is exactly the issue I was thinking about the other week, but we seem to have reached opposite conclusions. My presumption is that a student is more likely to develop the critical interpretive skills you mention if encouraged to consider material which is somewhat new or alien to them. Familiar material provokes only familiar responses, would be my worry. ... I should add that I would be happy using exactly the same logic to say that students who grew up with Monteverdi in their everyday environment should be introduced to Madonna at university: I have no a priori valorisation of one or the other, just a strong belief that university is there to widen perspectives (including in ways whose immediate or even long-term usefulness may not be evident to the students at the time).
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Baz
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« Reply #79 on: 15:17:38, 10-09-2008 »

...I have no a priori valorisation of one or the other, just a strong belief that university is there to widen perspectives (including in ways whose immediate or even long-term usefulness may not be evident to the students at the time).

Well this "widening of perspectives" certainly used to be an ideal. However, it has now been superseded by the infamous Learning Outcomes.

Now anybody not immediately familiar with current HE may be mistaken for believing that the term "learning outcomes" is just another way of expressing the ideal outcome of having widened perspectives. This, however, is erroneous! It is in fact the opposite

The technical term "Learning Outcomes" is another example of the business-speak gobbledygook that all current academics have to learn (and indeed waste time attending seminars to discuss).

What it means is this: it is a predefined list of actual points of knowledge, information and experience that the students will have amassed by the end of their course of study.

It is not their own list, developed by the individual as study and research progresses and interests and specialisms develop; it is a checklist of predefined elements of "indispensable knowledge" (rather like those many points of information that must be learnt before a Learner Driver can pass the Theory Test!). Every Course Leader is required to list, in the course documentation, precisely what students taking the course must eventually know, and be capable of demonstrating in order to Pass the course.

Naturally, this is not a one-sided operation. There is therefore another complementary piece of gobbledygook that has also been invented so as to complete this nonsensical striving for "transparency". This has been allotted the technical term "Assessment Criteria", which must also be exhaustively tabulated and explained in detail in all course documentation. This indicates (ideally) how - in terms of the "Learning Outcomes" specified - the examiners will award every single mark with regard to the eventual quality of performance shown by each student.

Students no longer, therefore, "work in order to discover" but rather "work in order to cover the preordained checklist". The knowledge they will ideally amass is therefore only that "knowledge" that has been revealed to them before they ever begin their work (though, of course, they actually have to get to know it in substance rather than in outline). But it still remains only what has been predetermined by somebody else and does not in any way (except by pure accident) stray into other territories that result from what used to be a more continual and personal process of awareness and discovery.

In short (by taking a plumbing example), the following might exactly describe a one-year module:

Learning Outcomes: by the end of the course, students will have learnt the correct method of dismantling a kitchen tap, replacing the washer, correctly reassembling the tap, and thoroughly checking that its operation is rectified.

Assessment Criteria: marks will be awarded as a result of individual practical examination, and the following banding will be applied for the reasons stated...

90-100 First class work showing completely correct dismantling, repair, reassembly and testing.
80-90 Good work showing mostly correct dismantling, repair, reassembly and testing.
70-80 Reasonable work showing many correct stages in dismantling, reassembly and testing
60-70 Mediocre work demonstrating some incorrect stages in dismantling, reassembly and testing
50-60 Poor work showing numerous incorrect stages in dismantling, reassembly and testing
40-50 Substandard work in which most stages in dismantling, reassembly and testing were incorrect
30-40 Wholly inadequate work showing little or no understanding of the processes required for completion of the test
20-30 Totally inadequate work barely demonstrating an understanding of the function of a tap or the properties of water
10-20 Work of such overriding poverty as to show that any attempt at completion would be a danger to health and safety
0-10 FAIL

Now this nonsense has to be provided for each and every single HE module of study. I have to say that this does not chime in any way with the university process from which I was fortunate enough to benefit as a student.

Baz
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martle
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« Reply #80 on: 15:47:12, 10-09-2008 »

Learning Outcomes: by the end of the course, students will have learnt the correct method of dismantling a kitchen tap, replacing the washer, correctly reassembling the tap, and thoroughly checking that its operation is rectified.

Just one quibble there, Baz. Unless you insert the word 'successful' before the word 'students' you're creating a legal hostage to fortune: what you've written is a de facto guarantee of skills and knowledge acquired. A student could take you to court for reneging on this. Too far fetched? It's happened. It's best to have lawyers overseeing the writing of learning outcomes I find.  Roll Eyes
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Green. Always green.
Baz
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« Reply #81 on: 15:57:58, 10-09-2008 »

Learning Outcomes: by the end of the course, students will have learnt the correct method of dismantling a kitchen tap, replacing the washer, correctly reassembling the tap, and thoroughly checking that its operation is rectified.

Just one quibble there, Baz. Unless you insert the word 'successful' before the word 'students' you're creating a legal hostage to fortune: what you've written is a de facto guarantee of skills and knowledge acquired. A student could take you to court for reneging on this. Too far fetched? It's happened. It's best to have lawyers overseeing the writing of learning outcomes I find.  Roll Eyes

Quite right martle! It's now been over 4 years since I had to do all this, and that omission would never have got through into the documents.

Baz
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richard barrett
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« Reply #82 on: 16:13:20, 10-09-2008 »

"Learning Outcomes"

All that is EXACTLY what I've been grumping about.

I suppose the Thought Police will be along in a minute to hector us about why all that bo//ocks is actually a good thing.
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martle
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« Reply #83 on: 17:11:42, 10-09-2008 »

Incidentally, I see all out smartarsing has thrown this up in the sponsered [sic] links:

'Realsmart' Learning Suite Assessment for Learning
www.smartassess.com
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Green. Always green.
harmonyharmony
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WWW
« Reply #84 on: 17:30:09, 10-09-2008 »

But academics need to rest his brains and to wait until good ideas will enter into his creative mind.
One can not get good ideas if one is doing one thing after another.

They need time when their ideas germinate and grow.


So, teachers don't need time 'when their ideas germinate and grow'?
So, teachers don't need time 'to rest his brains and wait until good ideas will enter his creative mind'?

This is the misconception , that teachers just work and academics ( although lots of teachers are academics ) do all this creative thinking and getting of ideas. Teachers have to think on their feet.

A

I wondered if that was where you were going. I don't think that anyone has even suggested this.
For many UK HE academics (though this is not exclusively the case), research is part of the job and therefore creative thinking unconnected with teaching is part of the contract, which it isn't for teachers (I don't know of any exceptions to this though I'd be pleased to hear of some). I'm well aware of how hard teachers work, since my mother has been a full-time teacher at an FE college for the last 20 (?) years and she works harder and longer than me. But she also has some (well a litte) time in the evening to chill out between bouts of marking and timetabling and preparation which she spends watching football, playing spider solitaire or solving sudoku (and she often combines the activities and says that this provides an opportunity to mull things over that won't necessarily occur to her while she's staring at the task in question).
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
Baz
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« Reply #85 on: 17:43:48, 10-09-2008 »

Incidentally, I see all out smartarsing has thrown this up in the sponsered [sic] links:

'Realsmart' Learning Suite Assessment for Learning
www.smartassess.com

Indeed - and when they tell us that...

Quote
We are continuously striving to practice...

...one assumes that it is not their spelling.

Baz
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Baz
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« Reply #86 on: 17:47:00, 10-09-2008 »

"Learning Outcomes"

All that is EXACTLY what I've been grumping about.

I suppose the Thought Police will be along in a minute to hector us about why all that bo//ocks is actually a good thing.

O dear Richard - something is wrong with the timing there! All the bo//ocks meetings should have already taken place long ago, and you should have been instructed at them exactly when all the bo//ocks materials are required for submission (with no opportunity for any appeal whatsoever).

You haven't by chance inadvertently missed these meetings have you?

Baz
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #87 on: 17:47:30, 10-09-2008 »

I'm not the thought police (at least I don't think I am - do I get a bonus to my salary if I am?) but I also do see that learning outcomes can prove to be a useful indicator for staff and students. This is possibly a generational thing coming from national curriculum and all that but it's been a great help to me to look at the descriptors for next year's teaching and have an idea of what I'm supposed to have covered during the teaching weeks in a field that is not my own.

At this stage in my career I'd much rather look at these things as something that I have to work with. This means that I'm going to use them as tools to serve what I want to do rather than (as I've seen colleagues in Another Institution do) see them as ends in themselves (the glorification of paperwork). I'm lucky in that the PGCert, which I'm beginning this term, seems to be set up in order to best enable this (well at my institution anyway) if the students are willing and able.

I'll even confess to finding sensitively worded criteria to be helpful. They're not the only guideline to how I mark, but often I'll have a set of specific things that I'm looking for when I'm marking and I don't necessarily see what's so wrong in sharing those with the students... In an age when class sizes are rising for every subject (obviously this isn't a trend restricted to HE, but in comparison this is a fairly recent exponential leap) the feedback that would have been possible when I was an undergraduate is now impossible, and sensitively worded criteria at least explain a little bit about what we're looking for in each band.

There are plenty of students who continue to work in order to learn (IMO at least) but they are not in the majority. It seems to be an indisputable reality that most students learn strategically in order to pass their degree. I wouldn't say I'm happy with that, but at the same time it's their choice. The students who continue to work in order to learn will always ask the interesting questions and they're the ones that you end up spending more time on (on top of the hours that you've promised to everyone of course) and they're generally the ones who do better. This is only based on the last 5 years experience while teaching first as a postgraduate then as a lecturer. I may well be singing a different tune in 10 years time, but this is where I am now.
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
Baz
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« Reply #88 on: 17:57:09, 10-09-2008 »


...For many UK HE academics (though this is not exclusively the case), research is part of the job and therefore creative thinking unconnected with teaching is part of the contract...

Got it in 1 HH - well done! But isn't it strange how few actually question the premiss that such "creative thinking" should now have become "unconnected with teaching"! In the past research expertise was an overridingly important aspect of university teaching because it was the researchers who actually defined "the boundaries of knowledge" which post-school university undergraduates were now expected to reach (although not exceed). Particular research strengths and emphases often impinged upon a choice of which institution a prospective student might select. But all this has now gone to the wall!

Institutions are increasingly able to save money by placing lecturers upon Teaching-only contracts, thereby formally separating teaching from research - just like it always was in the Secondary Education system. I just need somebody (Ian perhaps?) to come along and tell me that this is not yet another serious manifestation of "dumbing down".

Baz
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #89 on: 18:03:14, 10-09-2008 »

It's surely a sign of deep fear when the existence and expression of a simple opinion constitutes the 'Thought Police', unless one needs a sheltered environment in which to exist.

'Learning Outcomes' is not the most attractive concept, but as far as 'widening of perspectives' is concerned - how can one gauge whether such an end has indeed been achieved - in particular, how can it be gauged in such a way that is meaningful to those without a vested interest in assuming it has i.e. those in the institutions making such claims?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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