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Ian Pace
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« Reply #105 on: 20:31:14, 04-05-2007 » |
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But while it seems a very good idea, not least for the reason Richard and Ollie have both mentioned, that it can help to focus on creativity as a ongoing process (what Deleuze might have called an ongoing project of self-creation) rather than a finite one ending with a single product, I can also see how the sudden arrival of an unexpected commission, the new contacts it creates, the new trains of thought it sparks off, etc. are all positive things that are enabled by the current system. Unpredictability, of income and of attention, has its up-sides as well as it downs. Actually, this does make me think - is there an underlying assumption in this debate that what gets written should be composer- rather than performer-driven? Isn't there much to be said for performer's encouraging composers to explore new things, that they might not do otherwise, a situation that maybe would not happen were they not to be able to commission? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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time_is_now
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« Reply #106 on: 20:33:27, 04-05-2007 » |
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But while it seems a very good idea, not least for the reason Richard and Ollie have both mentioned, that it can help to focus on creativity as a ongoing process (what Deleuze might have called an ongoing project of self-creation) rather than a finite one ending with a single product, I can also see how the sudden arrival of an unexpected commission, the new contacts it creates, the new trains of thought it sparks off, etc. are all positive things that are enabled by the current system. Unpredictability, of income and of attention, has its up-sides as well as it downs. Actually, this does make me think - is there an underlying assumption in this debate that what gets written should be composer- rather than performer-driven? Isn't there much to be said for performer's encouraging composers to explore new things, that they might not do otherwise, a situation that maybe would not happen were they not to be able to commission? Yes, absolutely, that's one of the things I had in mind. But again, I'm sure there must be ways it would come about even under a different system (and indeed, maybe one that freed performers from the constant need to work out where they're going to get the money to commission that piece they're so desperate to persuade X to compose). |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #107 on: 20:39:07, 04-05-2007 » |
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Yes, absolutely, that's one of the things I had in mind. But again, I'm sure there must be ways it would come about even under a different system (and indeed, maybe one that freed performers from the constant need to work out where they're going to get the money to commission that piece they're so desperate to persuade X to compose).
Yes, that's very possible - the one thing I wonder is what the ways would be for a performer (say, one from a quite different country) gaining 'access' to an established and stipend-granted composer without being able to wave a commission possibility under their nose? Not saying it wouldn't be possible, just wondering.... |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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martle
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« Reply #108 on: 21:41:06, 04-05-2007 » |
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I used to think that such a scheme would be an invitation to all kinds of abuses, but so is the present one What, like the Aldeburgh Festival scrabbling around for £25,000 this summer to meet its own artistic director's fee for a suite from an opera he wrote 10 years ago? Never!  Ahem. Is this, or is it not, totally, totally outrageous? (And the situation begs far too many questions for my question to be taken seriously or at length in the context of this thread, so my apologies.) |
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Green. Always green.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #109 on: 21:55:35, 04-05-2007 » |
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I used to think that such a scheme would be an invitation to all kinds of abuses, but so is the present one What, like the Aldeburgh Festival scrabbling around for £25,000 this summer to meet its own artistic director's fee for a suite from an opera he wrote 10 years ago? Never! Ahem. Is this, or is it not, totally, totally outrageous? Yes. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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increpatio
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« Reply #110 on: 00:09:59, 05-05-2007 » |
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Well, I can't remember the fine details of how it is operated, but Irish composer friends (some of whom are on stipends there) seem to think it's all a bit of a joke and possibly a way of jiggling money around that benefits few. I will check on the details of this and post again.
To my knowledge (off-hand), all people who are creating original work get to profit off it without being taxed in any way; this wasn't designed so much to help the poor dudes get by as to attract some of the bigger ones, or at least keep them in the country. Needless to say, performers/interpreters feel a bit ****ed over at being excluded from this, but I guess one has to draw the line somewhere.
(ho ho ho) |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #111 on: 00:36:46, 05-05-2007 » |
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So have we finished with the topic and moved on to how composers are funded? I hope not, partly because I find that subject horribly circular and tedious (which is not to say I don't think it's important - how could I think such a thing), and partly because I thought we might be getting somewhere with the discussion. T_i_n made an interesting remark which went something like:
we might agree on some or all of the criteria by which a "good piece of music" may be judged
but where we disagree is in the relative importance of these criteria
and whether or not they apply in particular cases (eg. when one person thinks a piece is skilfully written, and another thinks the same piece is incompetently written).
Does that make them not really criteria?
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time_is_now
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« Reply #112 on: 00:42:55, 05-05-2007 » |
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Well, I find it all interesting, and yet I'm not sure the earlier subject doesn't bring its fair share of circularity and tedium to being discussed either, but I'd be happy to return to it and see how far we get.
What I actually said - and I think George knew where I was coming from, being a bit of a neo-Kantian and all that - was that I think the criteria might be objective (which is not to say they'd be easy to list!) but the assessment of whether/how any given piece meets the criteria is pretty subjective.
At least I think that's about it. My brain seems to be gradually switching itself off as I type. Maybe I'm leaking. I'll be back in the morning (I hope!).
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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time_is_now
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« Reply #113 on: 18:27:11, 05-05-2007 » |
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Well, since no one else has picked up on my subjective/objective comment that Richard kindly flagged up, I'd like to ask him what he meant by this rather extraordinary text, which I've just happened upon while looking for something else and which seemed to resonate rather interestingly with the topic under discussion. It's the programme note for a piece for string quartet: 1 not a genre but a possible theatre of action (ensemble/individual)
2 history unimportant except in having evolved potential for extremes of:
3 unanimity/diversification, order/chaos, euphony/harshness (etc.)
4 expressive identity of the work equals exploiting a perception of its medium
5 in other words subjective intuition equals objective intuition
6 therefore little usefully to be said |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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richard barrett
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« Reply #114 on: 19:07:15, 05-05-2007 » |
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I'd like to ask him what he meant by this rather extraordinary text Did I really write that? I think what I meant was something like I don't consider "string quartet" to be a genre but a possible theatre of action (ensemble/individual) (ie. musical actions by the ensemble and/or by the individuals who make up the ensemble), the history of which (ie. the string quartet) is unimportant except in having evolved potential for extremes of unanimity/diversification, order/chaos, euphony/harshness (etc.) (... is this clear? For example the SQ, because of its history and repertoire and "attitude", is capable of extremes of unanimity but also, because of the enormous timbral range of the instruments, extremes of diversification - it can behave like anything between on and four (or even more) instruments.) The expressive identity of the work equals exploiting a perception of its medium , which is a reference to my idea of "radically idiomatic music" where the musical material of a piece is extrapolated from a contemplation of its instrumental resources, which principally applies to solo instruments but can also be extended to ensembles, in other words subjective intuition equals objective intuition , that is to say the "inspiration" for a composition is identical to a "scientific" examination of its performing resources, therefore little usefully to be said which probably speaks for itself.I can't remember what made me write that in such a madly compressed and gnomic way, but I'll try not to let it happen again... |
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martle
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« Reply #115 on: 22:18:52, 05-05-2007 » |
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Richard, don't be too harsh on youself. I rather enjoyed that. Stimulating, and all that, and as usual hardly less than pertinent. (I mean, String Quartets - where do you start unpacking that??) Anyone fancy a 'Prgramme Notes' thread? (I'm not going to, oh no.)  |
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Green. Always green.
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