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« on: 00:03:22, 26-06-2007 » |
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So I've been listening plenty of preludes&fugues recently. One fugue that I really like would be Castelnuovo-Tedesco's re maggiore one from the well-tempered guitar collection. I'm not sure if that isn't largely for the fugal entry at the start of the fugue part; but even if it is, the other bits certainly don't let it down. I'd have to say that his collection might be the one that I am fondest of as a whole, and have the highest tolerance for  Of Shostakovich's; my hands-down favourite fugue is the seventh in A major; I would never thought I could have been so taken by a fugue with a fanfare-style subject heh. In Kapustin's, I'd probably find the 12th fugue in A minor to be the one that appeals the most to me; seems to combine the contrapuntal and jazz elements together especially strongly (and sounds gorgeous). P&F sets seem to be weird like that; even in a good quality set I'll usually find one I'm much much fonder of than the others. (exception to this rule would be Bentzon, who I have yet to get in to much in spite of efforts, but certainly wouldn't find his efforts in any way dull, and Shchedrin, whose P&F set I have a high respect for while not having an especial love for any of the works contained therein just yet). If I had to pick a Bach one, it'd be the #12 fugue in F-minor from Book 2. No especial reason though...(well ok, having learned it back in the days probably contributed a little). Any other people hanging around here have favoured fugues? (The reason I'm posting this is because I've come across a few sets recently that have really done next to nothing for me (Johnson, Madsen, and I am not optimistic about Slonimsky, though I haven't listened much through that yet) and I wanted to remind myself how much I like the ones I like)). |
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« Last Edit: 00:07:28, 26-06-2007 by increpatio »
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richard barrett
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« Reply #1 on: 00:30:20, 26-06-2007 » |
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Some very interesting fugues are the set of 36 by Anton Reicha, published in 1803. Many of them are in odd time signatures (no.30 is a double fugue in 4/2 and 3/4 time simultaneously) and/or are based on subjects which also are odd in various ways (that of no.18 is all on the same pitch). You can find the first twelve here: http://icking-music-archive.org/scores/reicha/Fughe_per_pianoforte.pdf |
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increpatio
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« Reply #2 on: 00:45:42, 26-06-2007 » |
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Some very interesting fugues are the set of 36 by Anton Reicha, published in 1803. Many of them are in odd time signatures (no.30 is a double fugue in 4/2 and 3/4 time simultaneously) and/or are based on subjects which also are odd in various ways (that of no.18 is all on the same pitch). You can find the first twelve here: http://icking-music-archive.org/scores/reicha/Fughe_per_pianoforte.pdfAh yes; I think these are really very high-quality fugues, and they tend to be very musically and theoretically interesting, and generally pleasant on the ears, something I very much appreciate in a fugue. Much of this is just saying what you've said in rather vaguer terms, but I mean to say that I agree with what you have said. I have a recording of a selection by Langer, and will try get the other (complete) recording some other time. I think I prefer his set of fugues as a body of work to his L'Art de Varier (I say this because some people hail it as being quite significant, but...well...I find the fugues much more interesting & endearing). EDIT: Another fugue-related thought: I find the fugati of Piazzolla far less endearing than I think I should, but on the other hand I'm not convinced that they're all that strong musically :/ |
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« Last Edit: 04:11:56, 26-06-2007 by increpatio »
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jennyhorn
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« Reply #3 on: 14:18:15, 26-06-2007 » |
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of the Shostakovich,i suppose my favourite has to be the most unhinged of the set-Db major.Roger Woodward does a great job on this one.
Bach-the first one i ever learnt was the Fugue in Eb from prelude,fugue and allegro which i think was originally written for Guitar?
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richard barrett
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« Reply #4 on: 14:25:10, 26-06-2007 » |
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Bach-the first one i ever learnt was the Fugue in Eb from prelude,fugue and allegro which i think was originally written for Guitar?
Originally for lute, in fact, or for the lute-harpsichord ( Lautenwerk), a keyboard instrument favoured by Bach which was so-called because it sort of sounded like a lute if you didn't listen too closely... it's a beautiful sound, anyway, I think. You can hear Robert Hill play the Eb Prelude, Allegro and Fugue among other pieces on this CD:  |
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eruanto
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« Reply #5 on: 14:29:27, 26-06-2007 » |
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...my favourite has to be the most unhinged of the set unhinged indeed, jennyhorn!!  If fugues in symphonies can be included, then it would be a tough choice between Shostakovich 4th or Finale of Walton 1st. But for keyboard, I can't get enough of the (Shostakovich) B flat minor (directly preceded by D flat major). Such a feat of memory and concentration to pull off. And one gets no help at all - ppp et legatissimo sempre. When the end is reached it feels like the world could have totally changed for all the player knows. |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #6 on: 15:11:50, 26-06-2007 » |
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One fugue that I really like would be Is 'would be' Irish for 'is', then, incr? (Or should that be 'Would "would be" be Irish for ...?'?) The last movement of Walton's 1st, of course, strictly speaking contains not a fugue but a fugato, since it has a full exposition but then abandons strict fugal structure (yes, there are rules for what happens after the exposition too, and a couple of strettos while common are in fact neither necessary on the one hand nor sufficient on the other!) in favour of an orchestral continuation which has always bothered me slightly by lapsing into an almost continuous common metre which sits rather oddly with the excitingly sprung 3/4 of the fugue subject. On the other hand, unlike several commentators I've never had a real problem with the movement overall as a symphonic finale. Have any composers on this board ever written a fugue? I'm guessing Alistair would have, but maybe richard or jenny has somehow done something with the concept too? |
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« Last Edit: 15:14:40, 26-06-2007 by time_is_now »
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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time_is_now
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« Reply #8 on: 15:28:31, 26-06-2007 » |
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Legal! (As Villa-Lobos might say ...)
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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increpatio
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« Reply #9 on: 16:13:25, 26-06-2007 » |
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One fugue that I really like would be Is 'would be' Irish for 'is', then, incr? (Or should that be 'Would "would be" be Irish for ...?'?) Oh no; deary me, it's not Irish, it's Hiberno-English I have not noticed that before actually; it might be some variation of the tendency of the westerner to say things like "They do be talking on their phones a lot" or "It's him I do be thinking of" (to quite wikipedia). The last movement of Walton's 1st, of course, strictly speaking contains not a fugue but a fugato, since it has a full exposition but then abandons strict fugal structure (yes, there are rules for what happens after the exposition too, and a couple of strettos while common are in fact neither necessary on the one hand nor sufficient on the other!) in favour of an orchestral continuation which has always bothered me slightly by lapsing into an almost continuous common metre which sits rather oddly with the excitingly sprung 3/4 of the fugue subject. On the other hand, unlike several commentators I've never had a real problem with the movement overall as a symphonic finale.
Sounds quite delightful! Will have to give it a look. Actually, when did the term fugue, in the classical sense, come in to use? My pachelbel inlays say that back in his time the term "fugue" could apply to any form of imitative counterpoint. Wikipedia tells me "From the 17th century onward and still in current use, the term fugue describes what is commonly regarded as the most fully developed procedure of imitative counterpoint". Well then. Have any composers on this board ever written a fugue? I'm guessing Alistair would have, but maybe richard or jenny has somehow done something with the concept too?
While making the qualification that I am but a recreational composer, my main creative musical indulgence as of late has been in allowing myself to embark upon the occasional writing of short fugues (and, indeed, the writing of them). Oh, lovely! Remember looking for those a while back without coming up with the full set. Nice. (Oh, for the record, I would put most of Sorabji's fugues into more or less the same category that I put Shchedrin's ones above, in that I haven't just yet been particularly grabbed by any of them, but have a deal of respect for their musicality). |
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eruanto
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« Reply #10 on: 17:10:43, 26-06-2007 » |
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The last movement of Walton's 1st, of course, strictly speaking contains not a fugue but a fugato, since it has a full exposition but then abandons strict fugal structure (yes, there are rules for what happens after the exposition too, and a couple of strettos while common are in fact neither necessary on the one hand nor sufficient on the other!) in favour of an orchestral continuation which has always bothered me slightly by lapsing into an almost continuous common metre which sits rather oddly with the excitingly sprung 3/4 of the fugue subject. On the other hand, unlike several commentators I've never had a real problem with the movement overall as a symphonic finale.
Sounds quite delightful! Will have to give it a look. Can't recommend it highly enough, increpatio. Mind-boggling recording on LSO Live (they're still £4.99 if the right shop is found ). time_is_now, thanks for that correction...  I had to hand in a fugue of my own last term as well so double |
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autoharp
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« Reply #11 on: 17:36:30, 26-06-2007 » |
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I recommend the fugues in Szymanowski's 2nd and 3rd piano sonatas.
Crazy subjects.
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increpatio
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« Reply #12 on: 17:55:39, 26-06-2007 » |
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I recommend the fugues in Szymanowski's 2nd and 3rd piano sonatas.
Crazy subjects.
Crazy-good I hope! Will check them out. Now that we're on sonata fugues, I'm going to say that, while I find it very exciting, I don't particularly love the fugue in Barber's sonata. Saying that, does one need to love a final-movement in a sonata? I think one maybe should be willing to settle for excitement : ) Some people have a fondness for Paderwski's as well (I think Ronald Stevenson in his introduction to Ziehn's book "Canonic Studies" (which, to be honest, I haven't really been able to penetrate) thought them quite noteworthy), but...well...haven't gotten in to the sonatas too much myself yet, so. Edit: eruanto, I had a listen to the Bb minor fugue with fresh ears just there, and I have re-evaluated my opinion of it (upwards, considerably)  |
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« Last Edit: 18:43:08, 26-06-2007 by increpatio »
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #13 on: 18:48:26, 26-06-2007 » |
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My schooling at the University of California was rather old-fashioned, so yes, we too wrote fugues. However, our entire source of models was Bach, which was both oppressive and forbidding. Now having looked that Alfred Mann book, plus myriad fugues of Handel, Buxtehude, Froberger, Battiferri, and other gentle Baroque-period persons even of the non-German persuasion, I must say I find the idea of writing fugues for my self-edification much more attractive than I did back then. Battiferri is not a major composer, but he is credited with the first fugue to make use of six 'subjects'. It isn't a sextuple fugue, however, as Bach attempted a few decades later, because the 6 subjects are not only NOT treated to their own individual expositions, but the texture is so dense that one can scarcely distinguish the subjects with complete certainty even when looking at the score. Also, this 12th ricercar (he didn't call it fugue) is quite short, as if old Luigi became quite exhausted after his effort. In addition to all that, Battiferri did not have a great rhythmic vocabulary (sort of at the level of folks like Frescobaldi, Marenzio, etc), so the subjects can't get very unique relative to one another as in the WTK. The Ricercar (or recercar), which comes from the same root as Engl. 'research', is something of a predecessor to fugue, though the terminology is quite mixed throughout history. There is even a book called 'Theories of Fugue from the Age of Josquin to the Age of Bach' (published by Eastman U, 2000)... of course, Josquin was mid 15th to early 16th c. I think it might be best to consult Grove online for a more definitive history of the term. Glad to see that one of Reicha's fugues is on a slightly altered version of the theme from Mozarts Symphony in D, K. 385 (Haffner), while another uses a chromatic Theme from Frescobaldi's Fiori Musicali -- can we agree that Reicha is an unreconstructed anorak? Battiferri was also not immune to chromatic subjects either -- here is his 7th Ricercar, first exposition. http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/42/426564/Batti7.pdf |
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« Last Edit: 18:50:01, 26-06-2007 by Chafing Dish »
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richard barrett
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« Reply #14 on: 18:55:51, 26-06-2007 » |
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can we agree that Reicha is an unreconstructed anorak? yes, but not on this scale: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_RaimondiAnd what (I say with some trepidation) about the numerous fugues to be found in the piano music of Sorabji? I have to say that so far I find most of them quite gruelling to listen to (which isn't to say I don't listen to them), with the strange exception of the longest one in OC. |
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