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Author Topic: religion is evil  (Read 9492 times)
Ron Dough
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« Reply #315 on: 19:35:43, 01-09-2007 »

JW's were apparently banned from calling on our place down south after I kept one of them and his son on our doorstep in the rain for over two hours spouting my own bible theories. It would have been around 1990: from then until 2003, not a single one ventured near, despite regular visits to both neighbours.

The other secret, r, is of course to abandon the dressing gown before opening the door.... Shocked
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time_is_now
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« Reply #316 on: 19:39:23, 01-09-2007 »

My private theory was always that they weren't really seeking to convert but to be converted, Richard. The trick is to look as sultry as possible and invite them in for a "coffee".
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #317 on: 19:51:59, 01-09-2007 »

I'd particularly like to hear from any JWs who happen to be r3ok members.
John W for example?

tinners, now I'm intrigued as to what your JW conversion rate might be...  Roll Eyes
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richard barrett
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« Reply #318 on: 20:23:38, 01-09-2007 »

My private theory was always that they weren't really seeking to convert but to be converted, Richard. The trick is to look as sultry as possible and invite them in for a "coffee".
Actually the gentleman who appeared at the door was accompanied by a woman whom he introduced as his wife, and while I'm not above attempting sultriness now and again, it didn't really seem worth the bother on this occasion.
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increpatio
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« Reply #319 on: 01:13:54, 02-09-2007 »

My private theory was always that they weren't really seeking to convert but to be converted, Richard. The trick is to look as sultry as possible and invite them in for a "coffee".
Actually the gentleman who appeared at the door was accompanied by a woman whom he introduced as his wife, and while I'm not above attempting sultriness now and again, it didn't really seem worth the bother on this occasion.

Yes; the last thing you want to do is to get them having a full on domestic in your living-room.

I would imagine their conversion rate per visit is quite low, but certainly non-negative (for a small religious community, one or two a year would be more than sufficient).  I had a friend who was a door-to-door evangelist (of the "american missionary"-style) for a while; I don't quite know what his conversion rate was, however.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #320 on: 01:16:29, 02-09-2007 »

Do you think they work to commission? 10% of every soul they bring to God.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
MT Wessel
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« Reply #321 on: 01:35:48, 02-09-2007 »

So lets just clear this up then ...

A believer is someone who believes that they believe in something.
A non believer is someone who believes that they do not believe in something.
An agnostic is someone who believes that they are not sure what to believe.

Well, would you believe it ?
« Last Edit: 01:39:14, 02-09-2007 by MT Wessel » Logged

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increpatio
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« Reply #322 on: 02:01:11, 02-09-2007 »

So lets just clear this up then ...

A believer is someone who believes that they believe in something.
A non believer is someone who believes that they do not believe in something.
An agnostic is someone who believes that they are not sure what to believe.

Well, would you believe it ?

As people have said elsewhere before, doubt can be an important part of belief(whether it be atheism or christianity).
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #323 on: 09:18:25, 02-09-2007 »


As people have said elsewhere before, doubt can be an important part of belief(whether it be atheism or christianity).
That certainly makes sense to me, patio. Blind faith needs neither intellect nor backbone, but even a single seed of doubt must leaven personal committment.
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increpatio
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« Reply #324 on: 13:14:10, 02-09-2007 »


As people have said elsewhere before, doubt can be an important part of belief(whether it be atheism or christianity).
That certainly makes sense to me, patio. Blind faith needs neither intellect nor backbone, but even a single seed of doubt must leaven personal committment.

Commitment to what though?  Commitment to working away at one's uncertainty as much as one feels is reasonable, or commitment to coming back out and having reassured belief in X, Y and Z?

EDIT:
Oh, Steve Jobs is OFFICIALLY unchristian.  After his $200 decrease in the price of iPhones announced last week, when he came under the fire of early adopters who had paid a rather higher price, he caved in and offered them all $100-dollar vouchers.
« Last Edit: 01:51:34, 09-09-2007 by increpatio » Logged

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increpatio
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« Reply #325 on: 21:13:58, 21-09-2007 »

Hmm.  This pope seems to be intent on explicitly battling secularism:

http://www.secularism.org.uk/popewarnsoftheencroachmentofsecu.html

“If the Church is not allowed to proclaim the truth in public, relativism takes its place: instead of being governed by principles, political choices are determined more and more by public opinion, values are overshadowed by procedures and targets, and indeed the very categories of good and evil, and right and wrong, give way to the pragmatic calculation of advantage and disadvantage."

I'm not sure what precisely I think of this statement (other than the initial rather inane non sequitur).

Oh and something about the archbishop of cantebury I haven't read fully yet but seems pointed enough to illicit response from people here (and in general).

http://www.secularism.org.uk/rowanwilliamsdeclareswaronsecula.html
« Last Edit: 21:15:57, 21-09-2007 by increpatio » Logged

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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #326 on: 21:44:23, 24-09-2007 »

It should be pointed out that this pope has also stated that the Roman Catholic Church is the one true church that is eternal and without error.
Even the ones for which they've apologised passed off as unfortunate incidents.
There are a few suggestions in the Gospels that Jesus was a big fan of secularism.
Not sure it's a war on secularism that Rowan Williams (I'm unable to think of him without recalling a civic service in Gloucester Cathedral, where the intercessor prayed for 'our archbishop [beat, then ffcon calore] WOWAN') is suggesting. War is too aggressive for him. Possibly 'a jolly good talking too and then some theological discussion in a round-table situation'.

And it's not a proper refutation of his points to say that it was worse when the Church had more power (though it undoubtedly was), because it's like that old Labour chestnut of knocking back criticism from Tories by saying that 'it was worse when you were in power therefore your point is worthless' (WHY WHY WHY does that have any currency at all?). It's quite possible that the different faith groups in the country can assist in a healthy secular society (and can help remodel a 'broken' society - not into a 'healed' society but a healthy diverse one) but I think that there's definitely a case to be made for those groups to examine their histories in a critical and open fashion, and for sweeping reforms into outdated, unfair, inefficient, etc. practices/hierarchies/laws particularly where money and power are concerned, and particularly where they are in direct opposition to the practices of the cornerstone of said faith.
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'is this all we can do?'
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increpatio
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« Reply #327 on: 12:42:59, 25-09-2007 »

It should be pointed out that this pope has also stated that the Roman Catholic Church is the one true church that is eternal and without error.
They're allowed to commit errors; they only proclaim truth in pope-approved papal bulls.  And they've only had papal infallibility since whenever it was that they declared it to be the case (some time after the establishment of the church).
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George Garnett
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« Reply #328 on: 14:21:09, 25-09-2007 »

Whether it is anything to do with 'religion' or not, and whether it might be happening without a 'religious' motivation, I don't know, but I am just humbled and lost in admiration for the courage of the Buddhist monks who have taken it upon themselves to stand up to the military Government in Burma and possibly lose everything in the process. I think they deserve our gratitude and support whatever our views on religion happen to be. 
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #329 on: 14:50:18, 25-09-2007 »

Agreed George.  The most courageous thing to do!  Totally unarmed and a peaceful demonstration even though they've been threatened with military force.  I'm just hoping they're not mown down in their thousands like last time - 1988 - when 3000 were slaughtered.  I too am lost in admiration but I'm waiting with bated breath..... Sad
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