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The Radio 3 Boards > General Chat > News And Current Affairs > how the other half crunches
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Author Topic: how the other half crunches  (Read 5589 times)
richard barrett
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« on: 09:02:05, 11-09-2008 »
From today's Guardian: Credit crunch halts boom in executive pay

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the average chief executive's package which slipped slightly to £2.8m in 2007, from £2.9m earned on average in the previous year. The amount paid to other executive directors fell from an average £1.8m to £1.4m.

Oh dear. How will they manage to pay their gas bills.
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martle
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« Reply #1 on: 09:04:37, 11-09-2008 »
Bless.
The government will probably bring in some sort of incapacity benefit to cover the shortfall.

 Angry Angry
« Last Edit: 09:23:03, 11-09-2008 by martle » Logged
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Lady_DoverHyphenSole
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« Reply #2 on: 09:53:24, 11-09-2008 »
The knowledge that those at the top are actually taking pay cuts has cured my anger at not having received a pay rise this year.

Of course, I shall check the figures in this year's annual report and may ask awkward questions at next year's AGM should my CEO have received an increase  Wink
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stuart macrae
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« Reply #3 on: 13:04:42, 11-09-2008 »
These guys should be taxed till the pips squeak, IMHO (Or at least the top chunk of it). Noone needs or deserves to earn that much.
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stuart macrae
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ascolta
« Reply #4 on: 13:06:45, 11-09-2008 »
Crunch this:
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increpatio
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« Reply #5 on: 13:09:58, 11-09-2008 »
Quote from: stuart macrae on 13:04:42, 11-09-2008
Noone needs or deserves to earn that much.
Who needs to earn more than 50k?  

As for deservingness: if there's anyone who deserves money, at least in terms of their ability to invest it productively, I'd say it would be CEOs and the like...
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #6 on: 13:10:26, 11-09-2008 »
Quote from: stuart macrae on 13:04:42, 11-09-2008
These guys should be taxed till the pips squeak, IMHO (Or at least the top chunk of it). Noone needs or deserves to earn that much.

Hang on a minute...some of us have worked very hard and maybe a 16-hour day for many years to reach very dizzy heights.  Some of us pay 40% tax on absolutely everything.  Would you have us come out with the minimum wage?  Roll Eyes
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richard barrett
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« Reply #7 on: 13:13:24, 11-09-2008 »
Many others work just as hard if not harder and do come out with the minimum wage. This is not about what people are deemed to "deserve" or not, it's about the increasing inequality in our society, a situation which generally, history teaches us, leads to violent social upheaval at some point.

Incs, you seem to be alluding to the famous "trickle-down effect" by which giving the rich more money somehow benefits the poor as well. This became part of Anglo-American political dogma in the 1980s and clearly hasn't worked.
« Last Edit: 13:15:01, 11-09-2008 by richard barrett » Logged
stuart macrae
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« Reply #8 on: 13:20:52, 11-09-2008 »
Quote from: Milly Jones on 13:10:26, 11-09-2008
 Would you have us come out with the minimum wage?  Roll Eyes

I hope you have your tongue firmly in your cheek Milly  Roll Eyes, but anyway: no, I don't begrudge people being rewarded adequately for working very hard and being very good at their jobs, over a long period of time. But I think, say, ten times the national average income (after tax) should be more than enough for anyone (that's probably about £180,000). People are often too focussed on how much tax they pay, rather than appreciating how much they are actually left with after tax - which is all bass-ackwards thinking, as far as I'm concerned.

I seem to remember Richard advocating the abolition of property once before - not sure I'd go that far but we do have a terribly iniquitous society...
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A
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« Reply #9 on: 13:23:30, 11-09-2008 »
Quote from: increpatio on 13:09:58, 11-09-2008

Who needs to earn more than 50k?  


Me..me..me Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Well, there you are.
increpatio
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« Reply #10 on: 13:24:29, 11-09-2008 »
Quote from: richard barrett on 13:13:24, 11-09-2008
Incs, you seem to be alluding to the famous "trickle-down effect" by which giving the rich more money somehow benefits the poor as well.
giving more money to the rich?  I never said anything about that.   Good businessmen are perfectly capable of earning their own money, I think you'll find.

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This became part of Anglo-American political dogma in the 1980s and clearly hasn't worked.
I'm still stuck in 1957 at the moment; just past the half-way mark in Atlas Shrugged now, alas.  I'll get back to you in twenty years or so...  Wink
« Last Edit: 13:26:42, 11-09-2008 by increpatio » Logged
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #11 on: 13:26:10, 11-09-2008 »
It needs to be pointed out that the minimum wage has become the maximum wage for a large portion of the workforce now, actually driving wages down rather than up. What CEOs and their cronies seem not to have twigged yet is that if most of the population is strapped for cash, they'll spend less and less to the point where more and more businesses eventually go bust, thereby reducing the number of CEOs required...
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richard barrett
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« Reply #12 on: 13:29:12, 11-09-2008 »
I would certainly advocate the abolition of property, yes - "from each according to their ability and to each according to their needs" and so on. I don't see what is so inescapable about material inequality. The smallness of the gap between richest and poorest is a good measure of how civilised and human (as opposed to brutal and inhuman) a society is, and we are obviously heading in the wrong direction by that measure. If it could disappear altogether we should have achieved something.

Yes, incs, "giving", in the form of tax breaks and many other perks you must be aware of.
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #13 on: 13:37:55, 11-09-2008 »
Quote from: stuart macrae on 13:20:52, 11-09-2008
Quote from: Milly Jones on 13:10:26, 11-09-2008
 Would you have us come out with the minimum wage?  Roll Eyes

I hope you have your tongue firmly in your cheek Milly  Roll Eyes, but anyway: no, I don't begrudge people being rewarded adequately for working very hard and being very good at their jobs, over a long period of time. But I think, say, ten times the national average income (after tax) should be more than enough for anyone (that's probably about £180,000). People are often too focussed on how much tax they pay, rather than appreciating how much they are actually left with after tax - which is all bass-ackwards thinking, as far as I'm concerned.

I seem to remember Richard advocating the abolition of property once before - not sure I'd go that far but we do have a terribly iniquitous society...

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I hope you have your tongue firmly in your cheek Milly  ,

No I don't actually.  Everybody who works, presumably works very hard and very often works very long hours and   more often than not they feel totally unappreciated.  This is obviously very understandable.  However, they are in professions where they presumably have negotiated a salary.  This is probably underpaid 90% of the time but they go into those professions anyway, knowing that they're going to be underpaid and then quite naturally feel very hard done to indeed.

If you go into a job and negotiate a salary or are offered one that is larger than the average then surely there is no problem with being paid that amount.  

Don't talk to me about tax.  I employ an accountant even though I'm paid at source and I've still had a demand that I've underpaid, because I was put, through no fault of my own, on the wrong tax code.  This is going to be taken from me in instalments monthly.  

Also, people who begrudge others earning a lot might take into account that they may be keeping a lot of other people on it and that they might share their hard-earned "good fortune".
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increpatio
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« Reply #14 on: 13:39:51, 11-09-2008 »
Quote from: Ron Dough on 13:26:10, 11-09-2008
Yes, incs, "giving", in the form of tax breaks and many other perks you must be aware of.
So by "giving" you mean "taking less"?  Wink  (These are usually given to companies rather than individuals though?)

Ron.  In america as of 2006 (see here), we have 2.2% of people at minimum wage or lower.  Not the happiest of statistics, given the rather low minimum wage in america.  I'm unable to find any statistics relating directly to those of us in the british Isles, alas. I don't put that forth as a rejoinder to what you said, I don't really have the knowledge to argue with it, and don't know if I would if I could, but thought a number might be nice to put to it Smiley
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