This board is a community which we try to keep as free as possible, though that often involves quite a deal of work on behalf of the Mods, which most of you will hardly be aware of. The community is formed from a group of disparate individuals of varying persuasions and tastes, most of whom have no other purpose than to come here for pleasant social interaction. As time passes, we get to know each others' tastes and trigger points, though by and large most of us are mature enough to try to avoid them rather than exploiting them. We don't receive that many complaints, and those we do are either regarding what is seen as an attack, or an attempt to dominate the board for their own ends, such as using the board for a private dialogue which would better be conducted via PM.

As Ollie has said, we really don't want to have to control or nursemaid anything, and would much rather allow the board to regulate itself, but it is only logical that if a member continually feels unhappy with the overall constituency of the board and the views of the majority, and feels the need to challenge them regularly to the point where complaints are made (both on the board and via PMs) that both sides accept that there must be a parting of the ways. It is sad, because I understand from those who have met Ian in person that he's a charming man, though on an internet forum where there's no eye-contact or body language to read there seems to be a general view that he often creates a very different impression when he posts. Nevertheless, when he was going through a difficult situation, the board rallied round, and (even though it was a situation few, if any, could identity with) offered support. It does seem that those who post across a wide range of subjects are likely to gain rather more favour than those who chose to specialise in a single reiterated viewpoint, though, and on the last couple of occasions that Ian has attacked others, he's had little backing from anyone else here.

As he says, there are other places where he'll find more like-minded souls, and I wish him well.

Well I do not feel happy that you should be allowed this privilege. Unless you are prepared to give me the apology for which I have asked I feel it utterly duplicitous of you to be merely "using" the facilities of this MB in the way you propose (almost, it seems, as if its existence is similar to the BT online Yellow Pages). You have not yet fully understood that some of those (although I speak only for myself) whom you have insulted and abused remain extremely unhappy to feel that - again under only your own terms - your membership of this forum is equitable with that of our own.

With respect to all that you have told us, surely the decent and gentlemanly (if you will allow such an un-PC phrase) thing to have done would be nothing less than cancelling your membership. You have no further interest in your fellow members here, and few of them have expressed any further interest in you.

Baz

I think it's a pity that it seems to have been impossible, for whatever reason, for Ian and those other members (including myself) with whom he has frequently discussed and argued to do so in a way that doesn't lead to this kind of conclusion.

I think it was irresponsible of Ollie to offer Baz a 'reading' of Ian's post, and the accusation of anyone being a Nazi arose from Ollie's interpretation rather than from anything Ian had said explicitly. I don't want to start up another debate now by saying this, but it's fairly clear to me as someone who hadn't been following this thread and has now spent quite a considerable time following its course that this is the case.

I don't regard Ian's enforced (whether by himself or by the moderators) absence from the boards as a happy result, but I can see that his tendency to reach conclusions about people's motivation based on their comments and expressed opinions is not helpful. This is not a board on which the acceptability of the word 'nigger' is up for debate, and Ian's view is distorted if he wants to suggest otherwise; one member suggested so, and was immediately leapt upon from several different directions. I don't think Milly's comment about Hungarians was very tongue-in-cheek - or if it was, it wasn't funny - but perhaps one good thing arising from Ian's absence is that people won't be able to hide behind the "Ian says I'm wrong so I must be right" excuse.

The main reason that more unacceptable opinions get expressed on this board than on Music&Society, incidentally, is because there is a wider range of people here who don't share the same presuppositions or the same social background, not because there's a narrower range here.

I accept it probably wasn't funny - but then living next door to the woman wasn't funny either.  She was evil.
However, I wasn't talking about Hungarians as a race, except as tongue in cheek, as I did explain.  I'd only met the one so I could hardly speak for all of them.

It's amazing how differently the written word can come over, rather than face to face in speech.  There's definitely something lost.

Apologies to any other Hungarians who may have felt needlessly insulted - oooh I've just remembered, I did know another one.  He was lovely and we dated for quite a while before I met my husband.  Nothing wrong with him at all. 

...that was initially from Ian in conversation with Baz - click on the header of the post of Ian's I quoted and it will take you back to the context. I'm afraid I couldn't be bothered wading through it all again...

I'd also like to echo what t_i_n said.

I am not surprised that Ian would not apologize. He didn't call anyone a Nazi. That is an extremely offensive word that no one should take lightly.

I want to be clear about this, however. He is not being restricted because he called someone a Nazi. He is being restricted because he refused to deny having called someone a Nazi.


'certain views' = Baz. These certain views 'bear a similarity' to arch-conservative views and require some scrutiny.

If that clarification had been forthcoming, then we wouldn't have a problem right now. If Ollie hadn't brought the word up, we wouldn't have a problem right now either.

Ian either thinks Baz is a Nazi and should say so (and in this he would be totally out of line and I would have no reason to support him) and then he can resign, or he thinks Baz's views are dangerously arch-conservative, which is a perfectly legitimate, if unproductive, thing to want to argue (and even here I don't agree with him).

Ian has been out of line many times on this board, and this time certainly no less than any others. His two 'final posts' show that he does not want to be a good citizen. But in this case I would say Ollie has part of the blame on his shoulders as well and ought to consider whether he is fit to continue as a moderator.

Please note I am not basing my own continued membership on whether my opinions on the matter are respected or not. I am open to being very very wrong about this.

I don't think that's necessary or productive. You have my support.