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Author Topic: Obama is the next President  (Read 1286 times)
time_is_now
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« Reply #45 on: 16:19:03, 04-11-2008 »

Long US voting queues should not be such a surprise - they are the norm in most "third world" countries after all. I remember queues miles long when they voted in Zimbabwe, and also in S. Africa. So I don't see why it should be any different in the US. It is the only opportunity Jo the Plumber will ever have to say anything remotely worthwhile. The remainder of his life will be spent passively gawking at all the corruption and war-mungering that will inexorably still be taking place long after he has had his say.
Dear Baziron,

For someone who 'no longer speaks in haste', I see you haven't entirely repudiated your Duke of Edinburgh Medal for tact.

It's 'war-mongering', incidentally. Wink
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Baziron
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« Reply #46 on: 16:27:23, 04-11-2008 »

Long US voting queues should not be such a surprise - they are the norm in most "third world" countries after all. I remember queues miles long when they voted in Zimbabwe, and also in S. Africa. So I don't see why it should be any different in the US. It is the only opportunity Jo the Plumber will ever have to say anything remotely worthwhile. The remainder of his life will be spent passively gawking at all the corruption and war-mungering that will inexorably still be taking place long after he has had his say.
Dear Baziron,

For someone who 'no longer speaks in haste', I see you haven't entirely repudiated your Duke of Edinburgh Medal for tact.

It's 'war-mongering', incidentally. Wink

So it is! I can't think how I missed that one. But I still retain my Medal, especially since (despite the length of this thread) I have kept very calm until now.

Baziron  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Baziron
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« Reply #47 on: 16:28:40, 04-11-2008 »

Some recent posters seem to be under the impression that nationalising the banks is somehow an act of 'Socialism'. I beg to differ - it seems more like an act of sheer 'Capitalism'.

Baziron
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richard barrett
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« Reply #48 on: 16:47:51, 04-11-2008 »

That be the same nation that just nationalised all those banks ?

Nationalisation is not a policy limited to socialists, as any dictator would tell you.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #49 on: 16:49:36, 04-11-2008 »

More on those voter queues, from The Independent:
Quote
Voters had to use paper ballots because of problems with electronic voting machines in some New Jersey precincts, and in Virginia, long lines of voters waited even longer in one case because, poll workers said, the head of a branch library had overslept.

 Roll Eyes

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strinasacchi
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« Reply #50 on: 16:51:13, 04-11-2008 »

That be the same nation that just nationalised all those banks ?

Nationalisation is not a policy limited to socialists, as any dictator would tell you.

True, true.  Let's hope my countrymen are more wary of creeping dictatorships than creeping socialism.  Somehow I am pessimistic.   Undecided

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ahinton
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« Reply #51 on: 17:23:14, 04-11-2008 »

That be the same nation that just nationalised all those banks ?

Nationalisation is not a policy limited to socialists, as any dictator would tell you.
Er - I don't think that any dictator will actually tell you this, but that does not, of course, make it any the less true!

Nationalisation seems to me to be a policy limited to governments that are either unable or unwilling (or both) to embrace or continue to permit a more effective solution so, by definition, it is indeed not limited to socialist governments. If banks and other corporations are subject to the law, it seems pointless to me to nationalise them purely just so as to ensure greater governmental control over their activities - i.e. for the purpose of minimising legal breaches (assuming that the government of the day would not itself break laws in its operation of firms that it had nationalised). From a purely commercial standpoint, it seems to me that the effectiveness, turnover and profitability of a company (and the relationship between the later two of those three things) is largely down to the success or otherwise of its management structure and operation and the wisdom or otherwise of its decision making and that, in principle, at least, it may not matter all that much who actually "owns" the company, as it's who runs it - and how - that counts most.

Where I worry most about corporations taken into what Viscount Stansgate (and others, of course) calls "public ownership" is that they effectively belong thereafter to the taxpayer until and unless they revert to private ownership at a later date (which is, I imagine, what may well turn out to be the fate of the recently nationalised British banks); when vast corporations are taken into public ownership during the opening stages of a severe economic recession, the often long-suffering and already overstretched taxpayer is least able to afford to buy shares in them by government decree and the government is, in turn, less and less able to fund those shareholdings because increasing numbers of taxpayers are accepting lower salaries, redundancy or loss of jobs and small businesses are going to the wall, with the inevitable consequence of sharply reduced tax revenues. It should not be forgotten that the government has no money of its own - only that which it is able to extract, by law, from the taxpayer. My concern is therefore not only for the taxpayer but for the extent to which such government takeovers might remain realistic; governments are no different to the rest of us in that they cannot fund purchases without the monies necessary to make them - or at the very least the access (via those dreaded things called loans) to such capital sums.

That said, I am not a professional economist so I accept that there may be valid reasons for governments to nationalise and de-nationalise certain organisations at certain times for reasons of economic expediency (such as, for example, the recent one with the UK banks). Given that certain high Tory politicians have on occasion condoned certain such nationalisation moves, it certainly seems to be true that nationalisation decisions are by no means necessarily synonymous with socialist policy.
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ahinton
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« Reply #52 on: 17:24:45, 04-11-2008 »

That be the same nation that just nationalised all those banks ?

Nationalisation is not a policy limited to socialists, as any dictator would tell you.

True, true.  Let's hope my countrymen are more wary of creeping dictatorships than creeping socialism.
I'd be wary of both, frankly - but that's only my view...
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...trj...
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« Reply #53 on: 17:51:20, 04-11-2008 »

Before we get carried away on a Socialist tide, let's bear in mind that the 'redistribution of wealth' that the radical marxist Obama is proposing is that the income tax collected from the rich be used to support a number of federal programmes and commitments, some of which will be to the benefit of the less well-off. McCain hasn't proposed abolishing income tax, so I don't see how his plan is substantially any more or less 'Socialist' than Obama's.  Roll Eyes
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #54 on: 04:41:26, 05-11-2008 »

Hmmm... So it seems that Obama is the next President.

I feel an almost overwhelming sense of optimism, which can only hope won't be crushed too soon...
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time_is_now
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« Reply #55 on: 05:13:25, 05-11-2008 »

I keep crying: tears of joy. I'm watching Obama's speech live from Chicago, and my admiration is almost unbounded. Do, everyone, when you wake up, sit and watch it all.

I was born 29 years ago, and I can't remember another political event in my lifetime that feels at the same time so intuitively right and such an occasion for hope.
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
strinasacchi
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« Reply #56 on: 05:24:51, 05-11-2008 »

Fantastic result!  I'm afraid I fell asleep though - kept hearing bits of Obama's speech in a dream.  Hmmm, that sounds familiar...

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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #57 on: 06:45:54, 05-11-2008 »

I woke up at 4.30 snd switched on Radio 4 in the middle of McCain's speech concedng to Obama. I thought, "That seems to be all right then", and went back to sleep.

Oh, the relief!
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Morticia
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« Reply #58 on: 07:04:17, 05-11-2008 »

OMG! Fantastic news!  Just amazing.I've been watching the clips on the BBC Home Page.
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #59 on: 07:25:15, 05-11-2008 »

I put out my hand about 4.55 am and turned on and up the bedside radio to hear the phrase "President elect Obama."

Twenty minutes later Sancho congratulates me as very clever to turn it on just in time for the acceptance speech.  I have not been to been awake since.

But the relief that America has not endorsed the dreadful militaristic, fundamentalist agenda of Bush and Palin.  The relief.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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