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Poll
Question: Oedipus Rex - do you like it?
Crowning Glory - 3 (21.4%)
Prince Regent - 8 (57.1%)
Not tonight, Mum - 2 (14.3%)
Train Rex - 1 (7.1%)
Total Voters: 13

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Author Topic: Stravinsky's Oedipus Rex  (Read 1440 times)
Ron Dough
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« Reply #15 on: 18:46:05, 24-08-2007 »

That's what I meant about the triple alienation; translation; Stravinsky intended the work to be sung in Latin a tongue 'not dead, but turned to stone', with narration in the tongue of the audience, so that they know what's going to happen before it happens. Stylistically, because he asks for the actors to be masked and limited to a bare minimum of gesture and movement, even going so far as to suggest that they should either be static and revealed by raised and lowered curtains, or even wheeled on and off. It's neo-classicism in another guise; an attempt to recreate the aura of Greek Drama. And whereas Orff took Svadebka/Les Noces and trivialised them to hell and back in Carmina Burana what's not so well known is that when he came to create his Greek opera trilogy, Antigone, Oedipus der Tyrann and Prometheus he went very much further than I.S. in reviving the conventions of Greek Drama as we know them. Did the notes tell you none of this?
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richard barrett
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« Reply #16 on: 19:04:08, 24-08-2007 »

when he came to create his Greek opera trilogy, Antigone, Oedipus der Tyrann and Prometheus he went very much further than I.S. in reviving the conventions of Greek Drama as we know them
... even though the G minor harp chords at Jokasta's first entry in Oedipus der Tyrann sound rather as if Orff wasn't finished with lifting bits from Stravinsky (in this case from the exactly corresponding point in Oedipus Rex)! There are some weirdly obvious references to Götterdämmerung elsewhere in Orff's piece too. Nevertheless I've always found those three works highly fascinating, indeed both musically and dramatically powerful. If all memory of Orff's pre-1945 music (and whatever else he did or didn't do in that period) disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow I wouldn't be in the least sorry, but somehow I keep returning to his "Greek trilogy" as one of the most interesting directions taken by 20th-century music theatre.
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ernani
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« Reply #17 on: 19:08:40, 24-08-2007 »

Did anyone else see Canadian Opera's Oedipus directed by Girard when it visited the EIF a few years back? It had Michael Schade in the title role and Ewa Podles as Jocasta. It was a fantastic production focusing on the analogy between pestilence and disease. You gradually realised (from the back of the stalls) that the mound that the action took place on was composed of human bodies. Oedipus gradually descended from the mound as the action unfolded - unforgettable as an introduction to the work.
« Last Edit: 20:12:38, 24-08-2007 by ernani » Logged
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #18 on: 19:13:35, 24-08-2007 »

Quote
If all memory of Orff's pre-1945 music

Regrettably Orff never faced the trial he properly deserved for his activities pre-1945. Like Karajan, Schwarzkopf and so many others, he was able to slip away from his Nazi past and reinvent himself post-1945.

If you'd like an OEDIPUS 2+ times as long as Stravinsky's, Enescu's "Oedip" fills those shoes admirably.  It falls into that camp of works I'd describe as "justly neglected" Wink
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #19 on: 19:17:13, 24-08-2007 »

Since it's a poll, my two sestertii worth: sometimes I enjoy Oedipus Rex, more often I'm frustrated by it - for me it's a piece usually better in the memory than in the ears. No denying it does what it says on the tin; for me my attitude to it generally mirrors my attitude to the neo-classical thing in general...
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Bryn
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« Reply #20 on: 19:17:37, 24-08-2007 »

Ivo Zidek singing 'Lux facta est' in the Ancerl recording - I defy anyone to hear this and not be deeply moved.

I'll go along with that, and in the CD issue the final chord of the work seems to have been been reinstated (or a very good bit of creative editing done to fake it).
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Bryn
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« Reply #21 on: 19:26:33, 24-08-2007 »

Anyway, I love the work, and my favourite recording is actually not the Ancerl, it's Stravinsky's Cologne recording from 1951, with Pears intherole of Oedipus.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #22 on: 19:27:12, 24-08-2007 »

Regrettably Orff never faced the trial he properly deserved for his activities pre-1945. Like Karajan, Schwarzkopf and so many others, he was able to slip away from his Nazi past and reinvent himself post-1945.
Yes, that is indeed highly regrettable of course, but so in my opinion is the idea that an artist's works should automatically be blamed alongside his/her person for such crimes.

As for Enesco, I do generally prefer to give "justly neglected" music a wide berth, despite having written considerable amounts of it myself!
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #23 on: 19:28:52, 24-08-2007 »

Quote
If all memory of Orff's pre-1945 music

Regrettably Orff never faced the trial he properly deserved for his activities pre-1945. Like Karajan, Schwarzkopf and so many others, he was able to slip away from his Nazi past and reinvent himself post-1945.
As far as Orff's actual actions were concerned, there was very little you could pin on him, certainly not that would justify a trial (compared to tens of thousands of others who were actively involved in the machinery of genocide and who mostly got away scott-free). In terms of accommodating himself to the regime, and also as one whose music accorded with Nazi culture, it's a different matter (according to Michael Kater, in his excellent Composers of the Nazi Era, when Goebbels heard a tape of Orff's music in 1944, he was beside himself for not having known about Orff before, and very eager to meet him, writing in his diary about his admiration - the source for this that Kater uses is an interview that Orff himself gave with Gottfried von Einem). After 1945, Orff was writing, and having produced on a large scale, works that were very similar to those he wrote during the Nazi era. This is one of various facts that shows how unsustainable is the idea that there was a musical Stunde Null in West Germany after 1945.

But in the end, I can't really go along with the idea that Fürtwängler, Karajan, Schwarzkopf, Orff, Strauss and others should have somehow been prevented from composing, performing or being performed after 1945. In the case of some of these figures, their very active role in providing cultural propaganda for the Reich is no small matter, and perhaps they should have gone on trial for that - in the case of Orff (for all he tried to make out that he was somehow involved with the resistance, so as to cover his tracks), that's a harder case to make all things told. On the other hand, I think some of his music comes as close to epitomising a Nazi aesthetic as anything.
« Last Edit: 19:40:09, 24-08-2007 by Ian Pace » Logged

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stuart macrae
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« Reply #24 on: 20:10:03, 24-08-2007 »

That's what I meant about the triple alienation; translation; Stravinsky intended the work to be sung in Latin a tongue 'not dead, but turned to stone', with narration in the tongue of the audience, so that they know what's going to happen before it happens. Stylistically, because he asks for the actors to be masked and limited to a bare minimum of gesture and movement, even going so far as to suggest that they should either be static and revealed by raised and lowered curtains, or even wheeled on and off. It's neo-classicism in another guise; an attempt to recreate the aura of Greek Drama. And whereas Orff took Svadebka/Les Noces and trivialised them to hell and back in Carmina Burana what's not so well known is that when he came to create his Greek opera trilogy, Antigone, Oedipus der Tyrann and Prometheus he went very much further than I.S. in reviving the conventions of Greek Drama as we know them. Did the notes tell you none of this?


Well, I wasn't able to read the notes until today due to a last-minute rush to get to the hall then a drive back to Glasgow! But if I had read them, I'm not sure they would have pointed me in quite the direction you suggest.

Here are a couple of excerpts:
"At this point, however, the conception begins to take on some of the boulevardier elements of Cocteau's Orphée...the most boulevardier idea of all, the dinner-jacketed Speaker who introduces and 'explains' each scene in the language of the audience, Stravinsky did not resist, though he later vehemently disowned it as 'that disturbing series of interruptions...But alas the music was composed with the speeches, and is paced by them'."

"Notice also the powerful effect of dramatic irony set up by the Speaker in describing the outcome of each scene, which then automatically rubs shoulders with the start of the same scene set to music; the violent contrasts are of course no accident and cast doubt, in the end, on Stravinsky's subsequent rejection of the whole device, as against his perhaps natural desire to play down Cocteau's contribution to a masterpiece he regarded as essentially his own."(Stephen Walsh)

I must admit that my impression was more in line with the former attitude, but then again I generally have a strong aversion to spoken sections interrupting the music in any piece...
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #25 on: 21:28:00, 24-08-2007 »

I'm basically with you on that, although I've never been worried by Puck in Britten's Dream or the Voice of God in Noye, let alone the spoken passages in L'Histoire du soldat. But so much Stravinsky is throwing caution to the wind anyway - and he's a past master at covering his tracks by changing the story completely to confuse matters still further, either intentionally or (sometimes it seems) on a whim.
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FisherMartinJ
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« Reply #26 on: 23:19:08, 24-08-2007 »

To anyone contemplating getting a CD of Oedipus Rex I would strongly endorse the support already given to the Colin Davis version on CfP. I already had a version (in a 1991 2-CD set by Robert Craft on Musicmasters Classics*) but was completely unprepared for the punch of this one on first play the other day.

[*Intriguingly labelled "Stravinsky the Composer, Volume 1". Should I be looking out for Stravinsky the delta blues guitarist, or is it a reference to his old dad the opera singer?  Cheesy]
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Bryn
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« Reply #27 on: 23:28:54, 24-08-2007 »

To anyone contemplating getting a CD of Oedipus Rex I would strongly endorse the support already given to the Colin Davis version on CfP. I already had a version (in a 1991 2-CD set by Robert Craft on Musicmasters Classics*) but was completely unprepared for the punch of this one on first play the other day.

[*Intriguingly labelled "Stravinsky the Composer, Volume 1". Should I be looking out for Stravinsky the delta blues guitarist, or is it a reference to his old dad the opera singer?  Cheesy]

FM, that Craft recording is now on Naxos. I too like the Colin Davis, but do look out for that 1951 recording of Stravinsky conducting it. The narration is in German, by the way.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #28 on: 23:38:43, 24-08-2007 »

That's the one with Pears: Marta Mödl's the Jocasta. Right at the end of his career, Pears recorded it again with Solti.
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Notoriously Bombastic
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« Reply #29 on: 09:27:06, 25-08-2007 »

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Oedipus-Rex-lyrics-Tom-Lehrer/EC79BE5CC40829F348256A7D00251CC4

NB
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