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Author Topic: You'v got to start somewhere  (Read 1045 times)
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« on: 13:58:17, 08-01-2008 »

I suggested to my goddaughter/niece that I take her to the ENO as a birthday present, and she said sounded intetesting.  I showed her the spring programme (no Mozart, no Verdi, shame) and told her a bit about each show.  She got back to me and said that though The Mikardo sounded fun, she had decided after discussion with her mum and grandma perhaps it would be better to go to Madame Butterfly.

I have booked two seats and let her know.  I have told here she can see The Mikardo on DVD.

Her grandma is my mum, who has never cared for opera one bit (although she said she had seen the London premiere of Annie Get Your Gun at the Coliseum - she likes musicals.)  I hope my niece does not feel she is going to Butterfly because she thinks it will be good for her.  Perhaps I should stay silent about my tepid feelings for Puccini.

The one I said I really wanted to see was Lucia, but that is probably not the best starting place.

At any rate it will be a chance to see a much loved piece which I would not otherwise do.

Any thoughts?
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #1 on: 14:28:33, 08-01-2008 »

I write the following as somebody who took an opera newcomer to this production a couple of years ago.

The ENO's Butterfly is inventive and very beautiful.  My reservation about it - certainly about taking a newcomer to it - is that it isn't a particularly representative example of an opera production, what with all the puppetry and visual effects.

One thing it had going for it the first time around was the visual effectiveness of casting teeny-tiny Mary Plazas in the title role, even though her voice was not of a size to balance comfortably with a Puccini orchestra.  This time round it's Judith Howarth - tallish, middle-aged British soprano - who I have heard mainly in coloratura roles (in which she's highly impressive), indeed I think Plazas has the weightier voice.  Potentially, this revival may therefore be short of both visual and vocal effectiveness.

Biggest problem last time round was the diction, especially in Act 1.  I couldn't make out a word of it (though it improved throughout the evening, and the surtitles, though they shouldn't be necessary, did help).  In this revival you've got the same tenor (Gwyn Hughes Jones) who was the main problem, diction-wise.

However, Ashley Holland as Sharpless and Karen Cargill as Suzuki make it (IMHO) unmissable.
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #2 on: 14:36:50, 08-01-2008 »

Thank you so much, Ruth.

It is useful for me to hear.

As regards diction, well, we have the surtitles.

And what is a "representative example of an opera production" nowadays?  At least it won't be like the Trovatore I saw in Bucharest (qv).  That would probably put her off for life.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
harpy128
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« Reply #3 on: 14:47:13, 08-01-2008 »

I've heard some negative reactions to this Madame Butterfly (and had one myself, but I'm not at all keen on either Madame B. or Anthony Minghella).

But I know several people, not regular opera-goers, who absolutely loved it, and I think most did. It does look very pretty, in a slightly minimalist way.

The puppet child was the one thing I really liked about the production, but you might want to explain about that to the niece beforehand because some people found it, and especially the visible puppeteers, a bit hard to fathom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunraku

ETA where can I read about the Trovatore in Bucharest? Oh, found it.
« Last Edit: 14:52:04, 08-01-2008 by harpy128 » Logged
C Dish
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« Reply #4 on: 14:48:21, 08-01-2008 »

1

Oh, I thought this was another counting thread....
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inert fig here
Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #5 on: 14:53:48, 08-01-2008 »

It is so tricky to pick the right thing for somebody else's first opera.

Usually if somebody asks my advice on the subject I try to find a revival of a production I have seen in the past and "approved", usually of a repertoire classic.  I have successfully taken non-operagoers to ENO's Tosca, Carmen (the old Jonathan Miller production), Rigoletto, Boheme and Magic Flute.

My brother has possibly been put off for life after being coerced by my dad's partner into a family outing to an awful substandard performance of La Boheme at age 14 - I know it was awful, as I too was coerced into being there.  It had a reasonable Marcello and Musetta, and when they took their bows I said to my brother "They were the best things about it, don't you think?" to which his response was "What were - the armchair and the fireplace?"

Had it been left up to me, I would have carefully selected something I thought might actually arouse his interest.  It might have been a few years before I found something suitable, but it would possibly have been more productive.

That was the first and last time my brother ever set foot inside an opera house.  It was eight years ago, and he is now 22.  However, tonight he and I are going to "Impempe Yomlingo", the Young Vic's South African take on "The Magic Flute" arranged for marimbas, township percussion and so forth.  His ticket was my Christmas present to him, and I asked if he was interested before I booked it.  I'm not approaching it as opera, and I don't think he is either.
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #6 on: 15:04:38, 08-01-2008 »

Incidentally, although I usually say that my first opera was Traviata, that's not strictly true.

In actual fact my first opera was Hansel and Gretel, on a school trip when I was six.  I remember some very fine details of the trip: I remember the fact that the programme was green and white and was the source of a new word in my vocabulary - "mezzo-soprano".  I remember thinking what a silly name Engelbert Humperdinck was, and how if I were to tell my mum that this was the composer's name, I didn't expect her to believe me.

But I don't have a single recollection of the music, or whether or not I enjoyed it.
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #7 on: 15:06:03, 08-01-2008 »


However, Ashley Holland as Sharpless and Karen Cargill as Suzuki make it (IMHO) unmissable.

That will be interesting for me.  One of my gripes with Puccini is that he never gives the mezzo and bass any of those lovely, slushy, declamatory, lyric, fill-one-side-of-a-78 numbers that he gives his prima donnas and tenors.  I will do my best to appreciate their roles this time round.

I suspect that one reason for my niece choosing Madame B was that we took her mother (my sister) to it years ago at ROH and she was visibly moved.  (I suspect it does get mothers in a way that the rest of us miss.)  My sister would probably recommend it, although I suspect her operatic experience is limited.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
George Garnett
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« Reply #8 on: 15:06:22, 08-01-2008 »

Puccini isn't really my thing either but if it's any help, Don B, I do remember sitting in front of a school party of ostentatiously unenthusiastic schoolgirls at an ENO Madam Butterfly (not the Minghella one) whose rustling crisp packets and giggling asides had all fallen silent after twenty minutes or so to be replaced by attentive silence, the odd gasp of outrage and, later, suppressed sobs. To be honest their response, which almost had me leaving to begin with, was the best thing about that evening (not that I am suggesting that your niece will be unenthusiastic in the first place).



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harpy128
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« Reply #9 on: 15:08:45, 08-01-2008 »

That's interesting, Ruth.

As I've probably related before, I think my first one was "Samson and Delilah", which my parents took me to by accident when I was 10 or 11, thinking they'd booked for the ballet but having got the wrong night  Grin

I think I quite liked it even though ISTR the production had a Golden Calf instead of an orgy (or perhaps the calf had gone along on the wrong evening as well). Anyway it doesn't seem to have put me off going again.
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Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #10 on: 15:17:07, 08-01-2008 »

My first "proper" opera was Aida at the baths of Caracalla when I was 17.  I was much struck by one woman standing up in her place in the audience and calling out "Brava!" at the end of the trial scene.

My first experience of musical theatre, as it were, was when I was 6 or 7 and was Exmouth Amateur Operatic Society's production of "The Merry Widow", a venue which subsequent experience when my parents did props for the Exmouth Players revealed had at most four small changing rooms.

I cannot remember the music or the plot, but I was entranced.

In subsequent years they did The Geisha, Naughty Marietta and The Gipsy Baron.

I would pay not to see the modern equivalent, but it is the most endearingly crummy and sweet thing I remember of my native town.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #11 on: 15:27:00, 08-01-2008 »

How old is your niece, DB?
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #12 on: 15:41:50, 08-01-2008 »

As I've mentioned here before, my first proper opera in the theatre was The Magic Flute at ENO - with, it transpires, one Ron Dough in the cast - but I was used to hearing a lot of opera around the house.  My first memory of really being moved by opera was a live relay of Don Carlos from La Scala on BBC2 (those were the days!) a couple of years earler; I recall being absolutely transfixed by the duet between Philip and the Grand Inquisitor.

My experience with my own daughter (now sixteen) is that she greatly enjoyed the two operas she has seen live - Fledermaus and L'Elisir d'Amore at Glyndebourne in GTO performances, despite initial misgivings on both her part and mine (the former in particular is not a work I would have chosen, but then - along with Madama B - that's probably partly down to personal dislike).  Opera has on the whole been more successful than symphonic concerts, where she and friends ahve found sitting through forty-five minutes of music without (they claim) visual stimulus rather trying.

I'm taking her to see the live relay of Macbeth from the Met at our local cinema on Saturday - not the same thing as live performance, I know, but it will be interesting to see how she responds to it.
« Last Edit: 15:59:35, 08-01-2008 by perfect wagnerite » Logged

At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #13 on: 16:13:44, 08-01-2008 »

Just wanted to clarify something with regard to my aforementioned early experience of Hansel and Gretel:
But I don't have a single recollection of the music, or whether or not I enjoyed it.

I think there must have been something about it that just didn't sink in.  I certainly don't put my lack of recollection down to my extreme youth or the fact that it was well over twenty years ago.  Indeed, I'm sure it was only a few months later that I saw a mere ten minutes of "La traviata" on TV, which lodged itself in my memory to the extent that it had a direct and powerful influence on my decision aged 17 to explore opera.

---

At the risk of going off topic, can I ask why so many experienced and knowledgeable opera fans have an antipathy towards Madama Butterfly?  I don't much like it myself, and I've never really been able to put my finger on why.  I suppose I find it overly emotionally manipulative and sentimental*, and if not done well, the characters (particularly Cio-Cio-San herself) become twee and stereotypical.  Also, the title role is so often inadequately cast.

However, generally speaking I'm sure it's the idea of it I dislike more than the reality of it.  I find myself in the situation where I see a new production/revival coming up and I think "Oh no, not Butterfly again", but then half the time I decide to go anyway and usually find I love it.

*...but then again I absolutely adore Suor Angelica!
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
Don Basilio
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Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #14 on: 16:26:18, 08-01-2008 »

How old is your niece, DB?

21.

I hope to have news about risotto rice, soon, Ruth.

I suspect with Puccini generally it is a feeling that he is over-rated.  That said, I prefer Butterfly to Boheme.  Butterfly may be as sweet and vulnerable as Mimi, but she displays far more backbone.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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