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Author Topic: Someone who doesn't like opera goes to lots of opera and writes about it  (Read 1940 times)
richard barrett
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Posts: 3123



« Reply #120 on: 14:03:33, 06-09-2008 »

I don't even understand what "self-indulgent" is supposed to mean in a musical context.

Drum solos.
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trained-pianist
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Posts: 5455



« Reply #121 on: 14:05:18, 06-09-2008 »

Can I say something on the subject too?
Performer who uses too much rubato is indulging himself too much.
Can it be so?
« Last Edit: 19:37:42, 06-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
autoharp
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Posts: 2778



« Reply #122 on: 14:42:26, 06-09-2008 »

I don't even understand what "self-indulgent" is supposed to mean in a musical context.

Drum solos.

Lang Lang?
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martle
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Gender: Male
Posts: 6685



« Reply #123 on: 15:37:21, 06-09-2008 »

I don't even understand what "self-indulgent" is supposed to mean in a musical context.

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Green. Always green.
Ted Ryder
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Posts: 274



« Reply #124 on: 15:49:00, 06-09-2008 »

I don't even understand what "self-indulgent" is supposed to mean in a musical context.


     
 Oooh - now you really have upset Charlie Hazlewood !
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I've got to get down to Sidcup.
Don Basilio
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Posts: 2682


Era solo un mio sospetto


« Reply #125 on: 17:18:38, 06-09-2008 »

It's the halo behind him that is really vain, isn't it?  Unless it's meant to be the Protecting Veil ironed out.
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
burning dog
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Gender: Male
Posts: 192



« Reply #126 on: 17:21:19, 06-09-2008 »

I suppose excessive rubato by a classical soloists could be considered self indulgent if it imposes TOO MUCH personality on a piece to the detriment of the orginal composition, but that's a subjective judgement on the part of the listener whether it's "too much", isn't it?.

The thing I object to is entire sub genres of rock and pop being dismissed as "all the same" by supposedly serious mature journalists, people who probably haven't given them fair listening, or are pandering to a decades old tribalism that should have died . It was different in 1976 when 18 years old were slagging of the rock establishement in the NME but they WERE 18 year olds! 

I was pretty anti prog  (to be more accurate indifferent to it) when it was at it most popular and was of the age where I couldn't afford to buy many albums,  but I was only really familiar with the stuff at the top of the album charts, though I had vague idea of early Pink Floyd being interesting.

Musicians of every stripe and level of instrumental sophistication have often been far more broad minded than fans and journos.


About The Damned


"They were heavily into Soft Machine as Roger Armstrong recounts. "The conventional punk influences were New York Dolls, Stooges, 60s garage and pop etc, but Capt and various members of the Mopeds were big fans of the early Soft Machine. At one point they used to stalk them from gig to gig !!!." This may explain some of the Captains more esoteric guitar workouts later. The Cap was also a big fan of Syd Barrett and I remember reading of his disgust at "Music For Pleasure" produced by Nick Mason drummer with the Floyd. The Captain wanted twisted raw psychedelia and a Piper At The Gates Of Dawn it wasn't... he got a rock dinosaur for a producer !!!"

nb. I believe the so called "early" Soft Machine referred to here would be early/mid seventies.


Long way from the original topic sorry!!! Huh
« Last Edit: 17:23:46, 06-09-2008 by burning dog » Logged
HtoHe
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Posts: 553


« Reply #127 on: 18:23:36, 06-09-2008 »

I suppose excessive rubato by a classical soloists could be considered self indulgent if it imposes TOO MUCH personality on a piece to the detriment of the orginal composition, but that's a subjective judgement on the part of the listener whether it's "too much", isn't it?.

I thought if I absolutely had to explain what I meant by self-indulgent (and I expect I have been guilty of using the term in the past) I'd say it describes a performer or performers who are more concerned to demonstrate what they can do than to create something that people might want to listen to.  But, as you say, the judgement is usually subjective, isn't it?  So if someone says to me that Rick Wakeman played three keyboards at once or Alvin Lee launched a 7-minute guitar solo I'd be entitled to point out that this in itself is not a positive sign - because there's a limit to how interesting the mere fact of Mr W's dexterity can be - but of course another person might find the actual sounds produced interesting where I don't.  If we could objectively demonstrate that the marginal utility of two of the keyboards or the last 5 minutes of the guitar solo were close to zero then we could come close to stating categorically that the artist(s) were being self-indulgent; but I don't know how we'd demonstrate such a thing.

The idea that the term could seriously be applied to whole genres of music is, as you say, not worthy of a serious professional commentator.
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