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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #1 on: 11:31:44, 02-09-2008 » |
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Mumbly's cover has been blown at last  |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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stuart macrae
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« Reply #2 on: 11:44:40, 02-09-2008 » |
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The galling thing is that she was actually paid to write that drivel.
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Morticia
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« Reply #3 on: 11:51:28, 02-09-2008 » |
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The galling thing is that she was actually paid to write that drivel.
Quite, Stuart. I imagine the paper stumped up for ticket costs as well. 'open minded'? I think not. She probably wrote the article before she attended just to confirm her worst suspicions. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #4 on: 11:51:44, 02-09-2008 » |
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I don't know, she seems to perceive some of the glaringly obvious things about opera that many classical listeners think should not be talked about. And I wouldn't be surprised if her reactions would be hardly atypical amongst the non-cognoscenti. If audiences for opera are an issue, then the perspectives of those less sympathetic (whose taxes also fund opera) should be considered. I don't see many eyebrows raised when there are blanket dismissals here of large swathes of popular music.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #5 on: 11:55:27, 02-09-2008 » |
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Ah, the wrath of the Thought Police descends once more. Must be time to go to work.
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #6 on: 11:56:43, 02-09-2008 » |
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I'd like to inject a serious note of annoyance here. I think our fellow boarder IRF would agree that opera is the last thing you ought to send a rock-loving classical neophyte to see. Why didn't they send her to hear a huge symphonic noise? Or a string quartet - much closer in spirit to the guitar-and-three-veg of your classic rock combo.
I was just discussing yesterday with the bf what it is about operatic singers that makes people inside the classical tent fall over in adoration while those outside the classical tent roll their eyes and cringe. I think someone who is accustomed to the individual, supposedly untrained, and characterful sounds of a rock vocalist is usually going to be immediately put off by the sound of a classically-trained voice - especially the higher, screechier, wobblier ones. They may come round to it, but not until much later in their classical explorations.
What annoys me most about this article is that it conflates "classical music" with "opera productions." I can well imagine that someone new to the genre might get really impatient with opera, but that's not the same as saying that they can't ever like "classical music." Those inside the profession who stick to the cliché that opera is the "highest" manifestation of our art would do well to bear this in mind.
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HtoHe
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« Reply #7 on: 11:57:58, 02-09-2008 » |
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The galling thing is that she was actually paid to write that drivel.
I couldn't finish reading it. The Guardian seems to love publishing tripe like this. I used to be a regular Grauniadreader but I now can't find anything to like about it (or any other paper to be quite fair). I sometimes pick one up at the airport at the request of friends abroad but I don't read the 'feature' content even then. I just got so sick of reading stuff that reminded me of sub-'O'-level 'written to order' material that I don't subject myself to it any more. It's the journalistic equivalent of painting by numbers. Radio 4's The Sunday Format lampooned this sort of stuff brilliantly and mercilessly. |
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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #8 on: 12:20:56, 02-09-2008 » |
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I'd like to inject a serious note of annoyance here. I think our fellow boarder IRF would agree that opera is the last thing you ought to send a rock-loving classical neophyte to see. Yes  I try to be broad-minded and sample a bit of everything, and in most cases I can find at least something in every genre to enjoy. But I really, really struggle with opera. I was just discussing yesterday with the bf what it is about operatic singers that makes people inside the classical tent fall over in adoration while those outside the classical tent roll their eyes and cringe. I think someone who is accustomed to the individual, supposedly untrained, and characterful sounds of a rock vocalist is usually going to be immediately put off by the sound of a classically-trained voice - especially the higher, screechier, wobblier ones. That's true for me. I love a lot of opera music but generally wish it was just just music with no words. I can't explain why classical voices don't suit me, I just know they don't. (I do enjoy early vocal works, though... the earlier the better, it often seems!) To be honest I thought the Guardian piece was pretty fair overall, though perhaps a bit heavy on hyperbole. She generally gave reasons for why she didn't like particular things (and they seemed like fair, or at least understandable, reasons), which is what a neophyte would need to know in making his own mind up. |
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Allegro, ma non tanto
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #9 on: 12:26:59, 02-09-2008 » |
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Ah, the wrath of the Thought Police descends once more. Must be time to go to work.
Indeed. Farewell to any kind of sensible discussion (as usual). |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Ruby2
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« Reply #10 on: 12:32:10, 02-09-2008 » |
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I'd like to inject a serious note of annoyance here. I think our fellow boarder IRF would agree that opera is the last thing you ought to send a rock-loving classical neophyte to see. Yes I try to be broad-minded and sample a bit of everything, and in most cases I can find at least something in every genre to enjoy. But I really, really struggle with opera. I was just discussing yesterday with the bf what it is about operatic singers that makes people inside the classical tent fall over in adoration while those outside the classical tent roll their eyes and cringe. I think someone who is accustomed to the individual, supposedly untrained, and characterful sounds of a rock vocalist is usually going to be immediately put off by the sound of a classically-trained voice - especially the higher, screechier, wobblier ones. That's true for me. I love a lot of opera music but generally wish it was just just music with no words. I can't explain why classical voices don't suit me, I just know they don't. (I do enjoy early vocal works, though... the earlier the better, it often seems!) I'm glad you said that... I'd like to inject a serious note of annoyance here. I think our fellow boarder IRF would agree that opera is the last thing you ought to send a rock-loving classical neophyte to see. Why didn't they send her to hear a huge symphonic noise? Or a string quartet - much closer in spirit to the guitar-and-three-veg of your classic rock combo. Quite. I was just discussing yesterday with the bf what it is about operatic singers that makes people inside the classical tent fall over in adoration while those outside the classical tent roll their eyes and cringe. Is that always true though? I can quite happily sit and listen to an orchestra for hours, but I can't maintain any lengthy interest in opera. This is true for an awful lot of vocal "classical" music, it just doesn't often grab me in the same way that purely orchestral pieces do. In the same way that I've got a string bias. It's just a preference thing. It's not universal - there are some operatic pieces that I love, but they tend to be quite short.  Maybe I'm not in a tent at all. Maybe I'm sitting in the field in between.  Much as the woman's article was hardly informative, I have to admit some agreement with her irritation about the repetition, although it might not have been such a problem if it hadn't been in English. Maybe current culture is eroding our attention spans... I know I've become much more impatient in the last 10 years. |
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"Two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #11 on: 12:36:51, 02-09-2008 » |
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To be honest I thought the Guardian piece was pretty fair overall, though perhaps a bit heavy on hyperbole. She generally gave reasons for why she didn't like particular things (and they seemed like fair, or at least understandable, reasons), which is what a neophyte would need to know in making his own mind up. Except that there's a difference between somebody going to sample opera and having that reaction based on their own experience, and printing an opinion piece so that people can have their minds made up for them. |
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Lady_DoverHyphenSole
Gender: 
Posts: 63
Warning: armed with a stout hatpin or two!
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« Reply #12 on: 12:48:22, 02-09-2008 » |
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I hope, in the spirit of checks and balances, their opera critic has been sent to a rock gig or two |
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RuthElleson: "Lady_DHS is one of the battiest people I know"
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Swan_Knight
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« Reply #13 on: 12:56:46, 02-09-2008 » |
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Her drinking habits give the game away - to her, going to a 'gig' is a night out. You drink, you eat, you smoke (by the state of her in the pic, she almost certainly does) and you listen to a bit of music. What she struggles with is the idea that the music is not just CENTRAL to the evening, it's its whole raison d'etre - though I'm sure there are a fair few dilletantes among the well-heeled regular punters at CG.
And I, at least, know better than to buy a drink at the ROH crush bar - you'll pay too much and the punters are, indeed, often rude. So? You find a pub and drink there - most intervals are at least 40 minutes long: ample time to slake your thirst, unless you're a 'rock-loving alcie' (which, by the look of her again, she probably is).
I know rock gig goers who have stopped going to gigs because they're no longer allowed to smoke there: shows you how committed they are to 'music'.
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...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
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Morticia
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« Reply #14 on: 13:02:46, 02-09-2008 » |
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I can quite happily sit and listen to an orchestra for hours, but I can't maintain any lengthy interest in opera. This is true for an awful lot of vocal "classical" music, it just doesn't often grab me in the same way that purely orchestral pieces do. In the same way that I've got a string bias. It's just a preference thing. It's not universal - there are some operatic pieces that I love, but they tend to be quite short. Maybe I'm not in a tent at all. Maybe I'm sitting in the field in between. I may be in the same field, Ruby. I have mentioned here in the past that I seem to have a bit of a problem with the human voice and, to be fair, that can apply to 'popular' vocal music as well. Somehow the voice seems to get in the way of the music for me. Like you, there are some operatic pieces that I love but, well, you've already said it. I know that the human voice is an instrument, but somehow I seem to prefer, er, instruments. Apologies to all singers here  |
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