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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #30 on: 15:49:31, 18-07-2007 » |
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Ugh. I come to these boards to escape that sort of ridiculousness. I'd expect to see such links at TOP-American, but not here. |
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xyzzzz__
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« Reply #31 on: 18:52:17, 18-07-2007 » |
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Why ws only half of this played, btw?
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Biroc
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« Reply #32 on: 19:06:35, 18-07-2007 » |
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Why ws only half of this played, btw?
Beeb only gave it 50 mins rehearsal time. Was with Sam in the pub after and he was somewhat disappointed, despite the promise of another full performance by them in the Barbican next season. Indeed, the ENTIRE programme only had 2 days of rehearsal (obvious from the Bernstein performance really...though I thought the Ives was pretty good perf). There was also some confusion on the Beeb's part (I believe) that the piece should have lasted 15 mins when the commission was for a 20 minute piece. Piss-poor management if so... To Richard: I feel it's difficult to say how the piece compares to his other recent work given the abridged and perhaps not exactly 'committed' performance. I had seen the score a while back and thought it was a potentially bold move (much occurring virtually all the time, with carefully structured textural shifts...). Funnily enough, I think I wondered wha sort of performance it might get at the time... |
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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xyzzzz__
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« Reply #33 on: 19:15:59, 18-07-2007 » |
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That's really awful. I watched it on TV and the presenter said the piece would last about 10 mins.
This would probably need quite a few listens but on the basis of a cpl of 'moments' I would def go and see a full perf of it at the Barbican. Agreed on the Ives.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #34 on: 19:36:50, 18-07-2007 » |
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Whilst I'm not one of those who'll go spluttering on about the commission in itself being a waste of money, am I alone in thinking it's rather a waste to spend the dosh on a piece and then not schedule enough time to rehearse it up to an acceptable level? Doesn't sound as if they spent all that much time on the Bernstein either. Three non-repertoire works (one of which is a premiere) to be rehearsed in two days ready for a televised concert in a much-vaunted prestige season. Doesn't sound a lot, does it? That's twice in quick succession I've heard the BBCSO in performances which displayed a lack of preparation all too obviously, and this cutting corners has been very evident already elsewhere, as in the unaccustomed roughness of the input of Prunella Scales and Timothy West on Saturday afternoon. Very disappointing.
<it will all end in tears> emoticon
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dotcommunist
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« Reply #35 on: 19:53:50, 18-07-2007 » |
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That's nothing short of disgusting really, 50 minutes rehearsal for an obviously very complex 20 minute piece , what kind of piece were they expecting, and what other works had they heard from sam hayden in the past?? and this coming from a so called internationally professional orchestra. as if it wasn't embarrassing enough to announce an incomplete performance at one of the biggest (certainly the longest) music festivals out there. i hope, but we all secretly know otherwise, that a few heads roll as a result.  waste of money all round for a sightread performance, did the audience get their money partly refunded???  |
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #36 on: 22:25:17, 18-07-2007 » |
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Very disappointing.
But the norm, I'm afraid, particularly for orchestral music. And, frankly, even for quite a lot of smaller chamber ensembles, too. |
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martle
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« Reply #37 on: 22:36:53, 18-07-2007 » |
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Have heard from Sam, and just to finnesse biroc's point. Apparently, the whole concert got nine hours' rehearsal. That, in pro-muso terms, is a day and a half, not two days. The conductor wanted and seemingly argued for another full day's rehearsal but was denied by BBCSO management. So it certainly isn't Robertson's fault, and I take back any previous imputation that it had been. How the HELL do you rehearse a programme like that in nine hours (which means, given union regs about breaks, 7 1/2 hours)  |
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Green. Always green.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #38 on: 22:52:32, 18-07-2007 » |
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This whole musical culture of sight-reading, little or no rehearsals is deeply entrenched in British musical culture; in terms of orchestras it can be traced back at least to the early 20th century (there's utterly fascinating material in Robert Philips' Performing Music in the Age of Recording on this, looking at how commonly early 20th century British orchestral musicians would make much of their living from playing in cinemas, would send in deputies to all the rehearsals, and would play pieces for the first time in the concert itself). But this all has at its roots the pitiful state funding of classical music in the UK, compared to that in much of Europe - it forces concerts to be put on with the minimum rehearsals to cut costs, and musicians to do as many gigs as possible, with as little expenditure of time as possible, in order to make a living. Without a significant change in the levels of subsidy, this situation is not going to change - even with a change it will take time. Everyone who wants to avoid calamities like that which beset last night's Prom should be out there making the political case for proper support of classical music and other culture.
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« Last Edit: 11:15:55, 19-07-2007 by Ian Pace »
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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ahinton
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« Reply #39 on: 23:16:26, 18-07-2007 » |
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This whole musical culture of sight-reading, little or no rehearsals is deeply entrenched in British musical culture; in terms of orchestras it can be traced back at least to the early 20th century (there's utterly fascinating material in Robert Philips' Performing Music in the Age of Recording on this, looking at how commonly early 20th century British orchestral musicians would make much of their living from playing in cinemas, would send in deputies to all the rehearsals, and would play pieces for the first time in the concert itself). But this all has at its roots the pitiful state funding of classical music in the UK, compared to that in much of Europe - it forces concerts to be put on with the minimum rehearsals to cut costs, and musicians to do as many gigs as possible, with as little expenditure of time as possible, in order to make a living. Without a significant change in the levels of subsidy, this situation is not going to change - even without a change it will take time. Everyone who wants to avoid calamities like that which beset last night's Prom should be out there making the political case for proper support of classical music and other culture.
Do you think you could say that more loudly, please? Do you think you could say that more loudly, please?I can't figure out how to use bigger point sizes, so I'll stop there, but - apart from the issue that one should not expect the state alone always to take the rap here - I could not support what you are saying more strongly, however hard I might try. Last night's Prom was indeed one of the more heinous examples of the ill-effects of what you call the sight-reading culture; whilst it is wonderful that we have a BBCSO that can do that kind of thing to the very standard that it does, this should never be made an excuse for insufficient rehearsal time. NEVER! Best, Alistair |
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #40 on: 23:19:54, 18-07-2007 » |
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Can't argue with that Ian! Cogently and persuasively put.
And if they spent only that much time rehearsing it, no wonder the balance was so bad. The engineers can hardly have known what they were aiming for; they must have been all but mixing it on the fly.
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Biroc
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« Reply #41 on: 23:24:07, 18-07-2007 » |
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Can't argue with that Ian! Cogently and persuasively put.
And if they spent only that much time rehearsing it, no wonder the balance was so bad. The engineers can hardly have known what they were aiming for; they must have been all but mixing it on the fly.
Indeed Ron. I half want to write to the Beeb and ask for a freebie for the Barbican gig given that I spent (including accomodation!) around £300 to go see that performance which they decided to tell us would not be a FULL performance until just before the gig when I went to pick up my ticket... Still, I had a nice alcoholic time in London. I suppose that's summat... |
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #42 on: 00:05:01, 19-07-2007 » |
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Do it, Biroc: try it. They really have no idea what concert-going means to those who don't live near enough to be able to attend night after night. I expect they reserve the usual rights, but it's close to a Trade Description infringement...
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #43 on: 00:10:34, 19-07-2007 » |
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It seems like bad programming to put together three items that would all need more than an average amount of rehearsal time, especially the Ives and Hayden.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #44 on: 00:16:23, 19-07-2007 » |
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Did they even get 'an average amount' of rehearsal time?
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