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richard barrett
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« Reply #45 on: 00:59:41, 19-07-2007 » |
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Did they even get 'an average amount' of rehearsal time?
I wonder what an "average amount" is? My last piece for the BBCSO was given two sectional rehearsals and two tuttis, making around twelve hours altogether. The other pieces on the programme weren't too difficult for the orchestra, and the rehearsal scheduling may have been affected by memories of my previous premiere with them (where indeed only two thirds of the piece was played, though that was mostly my fault because the piece was finished too late - on the other hand, the BBCSO hasn't given a complete public performance since then), which they found pretty taxing. I felt that while the rehearsal time was used well and the orchestra gave it their best effort, one more rehearsal would have put the entire performance on a decent level, instead of there being scrappy moments here and there. So 50 minutes for a piece which I suppose would be broadly on the same level of "difficulty" wouldn't get anyone very far. Mind you.lest anyone think that this is a particularly British fault, the LA Phil's policy with newly-commissioned works is to give them an absolute minimum of rehearsal and then play the piece several times, so that while the official first performance is little more than a read-through, the third is likely to have improved somewhat, although I would think that the chances of getting anything like a real performance out of a process like this are somewhat slim. On the other hand, though, the Barbican will suit this kind of music (actually most kinds, but dense and complex music most of all) far better than the RAH, so something good might eventually come from this mess. |
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Biroc
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« Reply #46 on: 01:09:05, 19-07-2007 » |
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On the other hand, though, the Barbican will suit this kind of music (actually most kinds, but dense and complex music most of all) far better than the RAH, so something good might eventually come from this mess.
Indeed - these were my paltry words of consolation to Sam last night... |
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"Believe nothing they say, they're not Biroc's kind."
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TimR-J
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« Reply #47 on: 09:57:45, 19-07-2007 » |
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This whole musical culture of sight-reading, little or no rehearsals is deeply entrenched in British musical culture; in terms of orchestras it can be traced back at least to the early 20th century (there's utterly fascinating material in Robert Philips' Performing Music in the Age of Recording on this, looking at how commonly early 20th century British orchestral musicians would make much of their living from playing in cinemas, would send in deputies to all the rehearsals, and would play pieces for the first time in the concert itself). But this all has at its roots the pitiful state funding of classical music in the UK, compared to that in much of Europe - it forces concerts to be put on with the minimum rehearsals to cut costs, and musicians to do as many gigs as possible, with as little expenditure of time as possible, in order to make a living. Without a significant change in the levels of subsidy, this situation is not going to change - even without a change it will take time. Everyone who wants to avoid calamities like that which beset last night's Prom should be out there making the political case for proper support of classical music and other culture.
Well said. And shame on all those responsible because, as is already transpiring in the comments from various official and unofficial quarters that I've read, it is Sam who will take the flack for this mess, not those responsible for an underprepared and underfunded performance. Incidentally, now that they're not all moonlighting in cinema bands, what do orchestral players do these days when they should be at rehearsals? |
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #48 on: 10:49:49, 19-07-2007 » |
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Well said. And shame on all those responsible because, as is already transpiring in the comments from various official and unofficial quarters that I've read, it is Sam who will take the flack for this mess, not those responsible for an underprepared and underfunded performance.
Oh that makes me sick at heart. No doubt someone will be going on about the importance of 'professional practice' (which is something that those responsible for rehearsal scheduling/funding should be charged with in this case) and the impracticality of complex notation in the professional musical sphere. It's enough to make you want to give up writing. I had a piece played by the London Sinfonietta that was performed in a truncated version partly through the complexity of the notation but partly (and this was my fault) through the impractical, uncorrected notation that I used. At no stage was there ever a complete performance suggested (in fact, I was advised to fashion the last movement into a free-standing piece because there was no way the Sinfonietta was going to perform the whole thing). I went back over the commissioning documents and found no mention of the level of complexity or time constraints on rehearsals. When these bodies commission works in full knowledge of the composer's previous work, it would really help everyone concerned if they put in place sufficient rehearsal time to prepare them sufficiently. |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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TimR-J
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« Reply #49 on: 10:52:29, 19-07-2007 » |
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I should perhaps clarify - by 'official and unofficial' I mean published newspaper reviews, and assorted listener comments distributed around the web, not anyone 'officially' connected with the concert or the BBC.
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TimR-J
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« Reply #50 on: 10:57:40, 19-07-2007 » |
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I've listened to the performance a few times this morning on LA. With the piece missing its first half - and according to Sam's introduction, it sounds like there are plenty of important structural things that happen at the start - I'll reserve full judgment, suffice to say that I like what I hear here and it sounds as though it would be an impressive piece in its entirety.
What I really wanted to say though was how irritated I've become at the announcer's insistence on calling this the "world première" of Substratum. No it's not - it's the wp of half of Substratum, own up to it. At least give us that honesty.
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martle
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« Reply #51 on: 11:05:32, 19-07-2007 » |
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I should perhaps clarify - by 'official and unofficial' I mean published newspaper reviews, and assorted listener comments distributed around the web, not anyone 'officially' connected with the concert or the BBC.
...and here's the first of the reviews that I've seen, from the Times. http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/live_reviews/article2098058.eceHilary Finch is usually at least sympathetic to new music in general, and I guess this isn't too bad. But... (hh, I had a Sinfonietta commission years and years ago, which wasn't even for their full line-up. It was for six instruments. They allotted three hours' rehearsal in toto. By 2 1/2 hours in, the conductor pronounced it 'ready' for performance and sent everyone home early, despite my protestations that it was all over the place (especially rhythmically). The first performance was terrible - absolutely amateurish. And this was a commission!) |
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Green. Always green.
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time_is_now
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« Reply #52 on: 11:10:03, 19-07-2007 » |
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Can someone just clarify, is the BBC4 announcer not explaining that this is an incomplete performance?
If so, why the f*@# not?
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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BobbyZ
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« Reply #53 on: 11:20:49, 19-07-2007 » |
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Can someone just clarify, is the BBC4 announcer not explaining that this is an incomplete performance?
If so, why the f*@# not?
The BBC4 announcer ( Hazlewood ) did say it was an incomplete performance, expressed the BBCSO "regrets" and the promise of a later full performance. But there was no explanation offered as to why this state of affairs had arisen. Don't know what was said in Radio 3. |
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Dreams, schemes and themes
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #54 on: 11:23:15, 19-07-2007 » |
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The BBC4 announcer ( Hazlewood ) did say it was an incomplete performance, expressed the BBCSO "regrets" and the promise of a later full performance. But there was no explanation offered as to why this state of affairs had arisen. Don't know what was said in Radio 3.
They should have simply blamed it upon leaves on the line. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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TimR-J
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« Reply #56 on: 11:55:51, 19-07-2007 » |
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/07/18/bmprom118.xmlAnd this was in yesterday's Telegraph. T_I_N - I've been listening to the Radio 3 recording (available here); there is an explanation that this is not a complete performance (including the reading of a statement from the orchestra), but he still refers on several occasions to this as the "world première" without further qualification. Something like "an abridged first performance" would have done it.
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« Last Edit: 11:57:41, 19-07-2007 by TimR-J »
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TimR-J
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« Reply #57 on: 12:03:49, 19-07-2007 » |
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Hmm... its dense textures seemed to cohere only in the hushed final pages Off the top of my head, a less prejudiced ear listener might have said something like "after several minutes immersed in its dense textures, an expressive coherence began to emerge"... |
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« Last Edit: 13:29:03, 19-07-2007 by TimR-J »
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George Garnett
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« Reply #58 on: 13:25:26, 19-07-2007 » |
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I've been listening to the Radio 3 recording (available here) Oh that's where it is! Thanks Tim. I've been looking at the main BBC Radio 3 Listen Again list every hour or so in the hope of finding it and it keeps saying 'not available due to severe technical problems'. |
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ahinton
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« Reply #59 on: 13:38:13, 19-07-2007 » |
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/07/18/bmprom118.xmlAnd this was in yesterday's Telegraph. T_I_N - I've been listening to the Radio 3 recording (available here); there is an explanation that this is not a complete performance (including the reading of a statement from the orchestra), but he still refers on several occasions to this as the "world première" without further qualification. Something like "an abridged first performance" would have done it. This Daily Telegraph picee also commits the gaffe of claiming that only the first three, rather than the last three, of the work's seven sections were performed; if Mr Hayden has read this, his understandable chagrin at the enforced curtailment of his première might well have risen to hair-tearing despondency... If one can offer him any consolation at all, he is in good company, although I'd not care to think that Nick Maw's Odyssey set any kind of precedent for such truncation... Best, Alistair |
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« Last Edit: 16:25:03, 19-07-2007 by ahinton »
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