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Author Topic: A Vaughan Williams symphony cycle  (Read 1653 times)
Il Grande Inquisitor
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« on: 21:07:08, 24-08-2008 »

Tuesday being the 50th anniversary of the death of RVW (as I'm sure we're all aware) I'm of a mind to listen to all of his nine symphonies. I've plenty of recordings available and was wondering which recordings you consider to be special for each symphony. I shan't reveal my line-up yet, although it's subject to change, but at the moment I have nine different conductors at the ready. You need not follow this self-imposed rule, indeed you may well persuade me that one conductor is worthy of more than one appearance.

Over to you... Wink
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Antheil
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« Reply #1 on: 21:16:30, 24-08-2008 »

IGI, can I nominate Vernon Handley, A Sea Symphony?
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #2 on: 22:55:58, 24-08-2008 »

I'll say it yet again, but Previn's Pastoral is, for me, one of the marvels of the catalogue: superbly recorded, and, in its aching beauty, discovering layers of emotion that no other performance has ever approached: probably the most perfect version of any RVW symphony on every level. RVW's own 4th for its white-hot impetuosity , Barbirolli's 5th for its mercurial moods, the Boult 78s of the 6th, Raymond Leppard's Antartica for Koss, Barbirolli again for the 8th: Previn's second London (Telarc), and Handley for the 9th. I listen to the Sea Symphony far less than rest of the cycle, but I'd probably go for the mono Decca Boult, mainly because of its period flavour and pronunciation, and the amazing Isobel Baillie, past her prime perhaps, but achieving a unique mixture of majesty and humanity nevertheless.

And I'd have to add a Job, probably Handley's, but maybe that live Boult which surfaced briefly on the Intaglio label

 
« Last Edit: 23:08:05, 24-08-2008 by Ron Dough » Logged
rauschwerk
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« Reply #3 on: 09:15:47, 25-08-2008 »

I'll try and be brief. 1: Haitink (stereo matters to me in this one, and though Handley is good, his soloists are backwardly balanced). 2: Handley, with Previn a close second (Hickox for the original, of course, but I must say I find him very slow). 3: Previn (no contest). 4: Vaughan Williams (never notice that it isn't a modern recording). 5: Handley (might choose Barbirolli if either of his versions were better recorded, or Previn (RCA - don't know his later one)  if he got a move on!). 6: Davis. 7 (to me the least gripping): Haitink. 8: Handley. 9: Previn (don't know Handley's).

Although I got to know many of these wonderful pieces through Boult's recordings, I hardly listen to any of them now. Strange.
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #4 on: 10:23:18, 25-08-2008 »

Thanks for the suggestions so far, some of which matched my initial selection.

Although I got to know many of these wonderful pieces through Boult's recordings, I hardly listen to any of them now. Strange.

That's interesting, especially in taking into account Ron's comment about 'period flavour and pronunciation'. The only Boult RVW recording I've ever owned was his EMI 'remake' of the Sea Symphony, with the LPO and I just didn't get on with it. Now, this could have been that I didn't get on with the work itself, of course (it's only recently I've managed to get to grips with it) or it could be that the sound/approach has dated.

The recording of RVW conducting the 4th - would that be on the Naxos disc or an earlier incarnation with the 5th on Avid Records?
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #5 on: 11:31:35, 25-08-2008 »

An earlier incarnation still, in my case, IGI: the Koch transfer (also prepared by Marc Obert-Thorn - whether it's the same version as Naxos used, I 'm not sure). I have the Dutton as well (coupled with the earlier 78s version of Barbirolli's 5th - it's his stereo version I mean in my earlier list) but find it over-processed. None of the CD transfers quite achieves what the old World Record Club LP transfer did, somehow.

There are 3 Previn 5ths, 4 Boult 6ths (one a BBC live disc), 3 Barbirolli 8ths, too (two live). The 6th is a particularly difficult choice, because it's so well represented. I went for the earliest of the three commercial Boults (HMV 78s, Decca mono, HMV/EMI stereo) because it has that searching feel of a new work; the Decca is below par, but the stereo remake has a good deal going for it, especially in the first movement, where the ramrod-straight Boult achieves a sense of 'swing' in the hemiola section that nobody else can match. On the subs bench for that symphony I'd place the live Bavarian Barbirolli, with Abravanel, Slatkin and Marriner not far behind. Barbirolli yet again demonstrates his ability to reveal the structural flow and point every fleeting change of mood in this composer's music, something that I find particularly lacking in at least two of the modern contenders.

The second Previn 5th (Telarc) I prefer to his earlier RCA reading, the Marriner (deleted Collins) is pretty fine, and there are two other unlikely runners who deserve investigation: Menuhin with the RPO (Virgin) and, better still, a BBC live Rozhdestvensky from a 1980 RFH concert, like Barbirolli, discovering more variety of pace, light and shade not to mention a more extended emotional trajectory than do the majority.
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #6 on: 12:15:22, 26-08-2008 »

I’m enjoying my survey of the VW symphonies this morning and have paused at the end of each to pen a few thoughts on each performance. Some choices of conductor may surprise, but I have stuck with my idea of having nine different conductors as guides.

No.1, A Sea Symphony: LSO/Hickox, Gritton, Finley

What precedent had there been for writing a true choral symphony before 1909? Written in the wake of Elgar’s Sea Pictures, Stanford’s Songs of the Sea and Debussy’s La mer, it was first performed in the same year as Bridge’s The Sea – I wonder what influences these works had on RVW, if any? I chose the Hickox performance because of its stunning SACD sound, the choral contributions, the lovely Susan Gritton and above all for Gerald Finley, who is outstanding – you can hear every word – and the way he floats ‘all seas’ at the end of the first movement is beautiful. The Sea Symphony has never been a favourite and it wasn’t until I heard this recording, released last year on Chandos, that I really ‘got it’. Quite a pacy account too (similar timings to Previn, faster than Handley or Haitink).

No.2, A London Symphony: RLPO/Handley

Beautiful playing from the orchestra. Handley controls the dynamics so well – the horns calls over the muted strings in the second movement are truly pp and create a magical effect. Plenty of swagger in the third and fourth movements too and what a lovely epilogue after the Westminster chimes.

No.3, Pastoral: LSO/Previn, Harper

This must be a difficult symphony to bring off – “four movements, all of them slow” – but it’s a most moving work. This and the 5th were my introductions to RVW’s symphonies and I’m surprised the 3rd doesn’t feature higher in the popularity stakes. Lionel Pike writes that “it is a ‘thinking man’s symphony’, in no way pandering to popular taste”. The subtitle ‘Pastoral’ doesn’t especially help – “it’s not really lambkins frisking at all as most people take for granted”, commented VW.  I’m not sure I subscribe to the ‘all slow movements’ idea – the third movement has a touch of galumphing swagger and its coda has a Mendelssohnian scherzo quality, surely?  

I read that the wordless vocal solo in the last movement is marked ‘to be sung by soprano or tenor’ – has anyone ever heard a tenor in this symphony? Apparently, at rehearsals, it was played on the clarinet (by Frederick Thurston) – I wonder if RVW always conceived it as a vocal part?

I’d agree that Previn’s account is magnificent, perfectly judged pacing and he draws some beautiful playing from the LSO and there is luminosity about the recording which is quite breathtaking.  Great solos from the orchestra and good to see RCA give nine of them a mention in the accompanying booklet.

My only quibble with RCA would be that there is too little a pause between the ethereal end of the 3rd and the thunderous, angry, dramatic chords of the 4th, or perhaps that was deliberate!

Time for a pause before the next one.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #7 on: 12:37:59, 26-08-2008 »

Just worth mentioning that although Previn's cycle was an RCA production, the sessions were handled by Decca's top team in what was then London's best recording venue, The Kingsway Hall. This was the only team that Britten would record with, so the venue and much of the team are the same as that for award-winning recordings such as the War Requiem. As well as 'moonlighting' for RCA, this team were also responsible for most of the Lyrita releases and a sizeable chunk of the Readers' Digest output, too: even today their work is considered amongst the finest examples of recorded sound ever produced.
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #8 on: 13:28:28, 26-08-2008 »

What precedent had there been for writing a true choral symphony before 1909? Written in the wake of Elgar’s Sea Pictures, Stanford’s Songs of the Sea and Debussy’s La mer, it was first performed in the same year as Bridge’s The Sea – I wonder what influences these works had on RVW, if any?

Gian Francesco Malipiero's Sinfonia del Mare of 1906 does not as far as we recall use human voices but it does go on for about forty-five minutes and serves as additional demonstration that the idea of a connection between music and the sea was at that era in the air and going around.

No.3, Pastoral . . .

This must be a difficult symphony to bring off – “four movements, all of them slow” – but it’s a most moving work. This and the 5th were my introductions to RVW’s symphonies and I’m surprised the 3rd doesn’t feature higher in the popularity stakes. Lionel Pike writes that “it is a ‘thinking man’s symphony’, in no way pandering to popular taste”.

Here is what Sydney Grew the Elder wrote of the third shortly after its première: "It is with the 'Pastoral Symphony' (first produced in the January of 1922, and then slightly revised at once for the February performance) that the composer seems to arrive at the kingdom of himself and of his art. Here is music that meditates as Nature seems to meditate, observing the thing done while in the act of doing it. In one place the body of the music ceases while a solo trumpet breathes and sings a long melody - this is 'realism' of the metaphysical kind, the pure mysticism of the spirit, a 'pulse in the eternal mind, no less.'

"But because of its absolute nature, the 'Pastoral Symphony' cannot please everybody; by some indeed it is very much disliked, and you must therefore read criticisms of the music with the help of that philosophy which says how one man's meat is another's poison. The fact that the critics dogmatise in their condemnation, saying definitely 'is' and 'is not,' as with an Almighty fiat, instead of saying 'is' and 'is not' according to theories and principles expounded in the act of criticising, is merely the common defect of the art of criticising."
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richard barrett
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« Reply #9 on: 13:33:23, 26-08-2008 »

The fact that the critics dogmatise in their condemnation, saying definitely 'is' and 'is not,' as with an Almighty fiat, instead of saying 'is' and 'is not' according to theories and principles expounded in the act of criticising, is merely the common defect of the art of criticising."

An admirable observation and one upon which the younger Sydney Grew would do well himselves to meditate.
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Robert Dahm
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« Reply #10 on: 14:39:03, 26-08-2008 »

I'm more-or-less a Vaughan Williams neophyte. I have heard all of the symphonies before (although it's been some time now...), and most other 'major' works, but generally haven't been grabbed by them. This seems an opportune time to give Ralph another go. Is there one symphony cycle that is better than all the rest? Any recommendations?
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #11 on: 15:45:57, 26-08-2008 »

What precedent had there been for writing a true choral symphony before 1909? Written in the wake of Elgar’s Sea Pictures, Stanford’s Songs of the Sea and Debussy’s La mer, it was first performed in the same year as Bridge’s The Sea – I wonder what influences these works had on RVW, if any?

Gian Francesco Malipiero's Sinfonia del Mare of 1906 does not as far as we recall use human voices but it does go on for about forty-five minutes and serves as additional demonstration that the idea of a connection between music and the sea was at that era in the air and going around.

Thank you for that, Mr Grew. It was not a work with which I was aware.

Is there one symphony cycle that is better than all the rest? Any recommendations?

I'm not sure there's a stand-out 'winner', Robert, but we are very lucky that there are several modern sets which offer plenty of riches. I have those by Previn, Handley and Haitink on my shelves, all of which are available at ridiculously cheap prices. I'd say that the Haitink is in superb sound and he brings out the structure of the symphonies and their inner parts really well. Handley has long been an advocate for British music and I've read that he can be seen as a 'direct descendent' of Adrian Boult in approach. The Previn is the newest set I've owned (recorded in the early 70s) and he also conducts superb performances - see mine and Ron's comments on the 3rd. There's also a Naxos box with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra conducted, for the most part, by Kees Bakels, with Paul Daniel in 1 and 4, of which I have only heard the 5th and 9th.
« Last Edit: 15:56:53, 26-08-2008 by Il Grande Inquisitor » Logged

Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #12 on: 15:55:35, 26-08-2008 »

On with the journey...

No.4: BBCSO/ Vaughan Williams

Thanks to Ron and rauschwerk for pointing me in the direction of RVW’s own recording, which I downloaded yesterday evening, in Naxos’ release. Amazingly good sound for 1937 and very interesting to hear the composer conducting his own work; the sheer anger in that opening really grips and there’s plenty of dash in the third movement scherzo; gusto in the final ‘door slam’. Listening to this performance, I’m inclined to think it was RVW’s most ‘classical’ symphony thus far – traditional symphonic form, even a bridged third and fourth movement like Beethoven’s 5th.

No.5: LPO/ Norrington

Before listening to this, I spent some time with the excellent Discovering Music on the 5th by Stephen Johnson (you can find the link towards the bottom of this page )
He talks about the relationship between the D major horn call and the C of the opening strings and the 2nd movement e minor/D major tensions; how the ambiguities in key relationships raise doubts, which find peace and hope in the final pages of the symphony.  He is also good at pointing out the links to The Pilgrim’s Progress and hymn tunes such as the ‘Alleluia’ from ‘For all the Saints who from their labours rest’.

Norrington, in his introduction in the liner notes, reveals how important RVW’s symphonies are to him, recalling hearing the premiere of the 6th ‘on the wireless’, how he heard them conducted by Boult and Barbirolli, even how he himself played under the composer’s baton and sang in Sir John in Love. “I was delighted by the vigour with which the eighty-year-old composer kissed every female in the cast good-bye; and the simplicity with which he popped off home by underground”.

The tempi are quite fast here (although it’s only the Romanza where Norrington is quicker than Leonard Slatkin in his RCA account with the Philharmonia). I think Mr Dough has the recording of RVW conducting it at the Proms and I wonder how the timings compare, Ron?

The first movement horn calls conjure up a nostalgic atmosphere, full of inner calm and serenity. I find the Decca recording has a clarity and freshness about it. The scherzo is like quicksilver, skipping along, whilst the third movement doesn’t hang about either, although the strings really sing out.  The opening string chords of the Romanza, followed by the wistful cor anglais solo passage, is just so beautiful. When I heard it in the context of The Pilgrim’s Progress at Sadler’s Wells in June, it had just as powerful an impact as two days before when I heard the symphony played by the BSO in Winchester Cathedral.

No.6: Bournemouth SO/ Berglund

Another recording made in Kingsway Hall, I notice, a couple of years after Previn’s Pastoral – I can’t imagine the BSO recorded that much in this venue. This performance has real grit, which is no surprise from a conductor who is so well-attuned to Sibelius and Shostakovich. Glowering basses and stabbing brass in the 2nd movement Moderato are terrifying, and a desolate epilogue.
Really pleasing to hear Bournemouth on such fine form.

In an intriguing liner note, Michael Kennedy mentions a letter from the composer relating to the last movement, where he quotes Prospero: “We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded with a sleep”, although in fairness he also repeats the comment made to Roy Douglas about “a man might just want to write a piece of music”. Also, Kennedy makes an interesting proposition that the symphony might well be considered a memorial tribute to Holst, with allusions to Mars and Neptune in the music. I wonder what others think.

I have Berglund's RPO recording of the 4th Symphony. Did he perform/ record any of the others?

« Last Edit: 15:59:55, 26-08-2008 by Il Grande Inquisitor » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: 16:53:25, 26-08-2008 »

As far as I know, there have never been any other Berglund RVW symphonies other than 4 and 6, IGI: but his 6th is another I rate very highly. There are actually two RVW performances of the 5th now doing the rounds: I'll locate the details shortly.

Robert, as IGI says, Previn and Handley probably first choice: Handley more consistent, but Previn never less than good, and outstanding more often than not.
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Rob_G
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« Reply #14 on: 16:58:08, 26-08-2008 »

I like the sea symphony, especially the 1st and 4th movements.
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