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Andy D
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« Reply #60 on: 22:28:05, 20-10-2007 » |
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I agree with you A. The dismissive arrogance of Ian Pace isn't going to endear him to many here. Maybe a certain antipathy towards the whole view of snobbish superiority that is deeply embroiled in the process of appreciating 'classical' (or 'serious' - thus implying other things are non-'serious') music strikes you as 'dismissive arrogance'; actually I believe it is that culture itself that is dismissive and arrogant, not least with respect to the views of the much wider population. And one can observe that when there are posters who do dispute some of the basic assumptions upon which appreciation of classical music (let alone of new music). I believe in inclusiveness, and that a board should be able to accommodate the wider views of classical music that those deeply embroiled with it tend to ignore. What would you like from moderation, other than the return of John and Michael? By the way, I'm far from being certain of being right, or else I wouldn't offer up thoughts on forums in the knowledge that they will be discussed and possibly disputed. (and I will also draw attention to the fact that the ad hominem attacks of Andy D, like those of Reiner before him, seem not to bother the current moderators at all, despite rules against personal attacks. Perhaps ad hominem attacks are fine and dandy as long as they are made by people one agrees with?) Thank you for you remarks Ian, I'm so pleased to have received them. |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #61 on: 22:32:33, 20-10-2007 » |
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Re Radio 3: hardly any of the posters talk about Radio 3, practically at all. I can understand if there's a problem with the fact that Radio 3 and its broadcasts do not seem to be a prominent feature of this board, but with that in mind, it surely has to be borne in mind that the majority of posters (who are, as various people have said, what make the board what it says) have little interest in that situation changing? It seems as if R3 issues are extensively discussed on the BBC boards (in that case often in a rather petty way) and on For3, so people don't feel such an interest in their being talked about here?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Morticia
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« Reply #62 on: 22:35:33, 20-10-2007 » |
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Bryn,
Yes I know 'quite a few' are unhappy, but I don't think that poll was fair as it seemed to involve mostly those who formed M&S.
John W
John, how did you work that out? I voted but I wasn`t one of those who formed M&S  |
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Andy D
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« Reply #63 on: 22:36:07, 20-10-2007 » |
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I can't see why the two forums could not live happily together.
John W
I quite agree John but certain people who have ostensibly left this board return to muddy the waters now that a vote has been proposed. Does anyone know where George is? |
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Baziron
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« Reply #64 on: 22:37:31, 20-10-2007 » |
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Surely Adorno was partly right when he said: 'Reality becomes its own ideology through the spell cast by its faithful duplication' ('The Schema of Mass Culture'). ...at least to the extent that one person who has typed the quotation into his Profile as a signature can feel hope that every time he posts this same assertion will appear often enough for people to believe it (together with whatever precedes it in the posting). Baz |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #65 on: 22:40:16, 20-10-2007 » |
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I quite agree John but certain people who have ostensibly left this board return to muddy the waters now that a vote has been proposed. The waters are muddied by those who try to deflect some fundamental questions (about what moderation entails, about what is legitimate to post about here, about the decisions that led to this sorry situation) into attacks, claims of wilful disruption, and the like. In an election, shouldn't the issues and the proposed decisions of the candidates be discussed? I would really like to see this board return to its best state (or even something better), but that's not going to happen by clamping down on discussion of the very serious issues that have led to this situation. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #66 on: 22:41:22, 20-10-2007 » |
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Surely Adorno was partly right when he said: 'Reality becomes its own ideology through the spell cast by its faithful duplication' ('The Schema of Mass Culture'). ...at least to the extent that one person who has typed the quotation into his Profile as a signature can feel hope that every time he posts this same assertion will appear often enough for people to believe it (together with whatever precedes it in the posting). That is actually a very incisive observation, Baz! Hmmmmm - should change that signature, maybe. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Baziron
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« Reply #67 on: 22:50:24, 20-10-2007 » |
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Surely Adorno was partly right when he said: 'Reality becomes its own ideology through the spell cast by its faithful duplication' ('The Schema of Mass Culture'). ...at least to the extent that one person who has typed the quotation into his Profile as a signature can feel hope that every time he posts this same assertion will appear often enough for people to believe it (together with whatever precedes it in the posting). That is actually a very incisive observation, Baz! Hmmmmm - should change that signature, maybe. As ever Ian, you can be relied upon completely to do and say exactly what you feel is right. Baz |
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increpatio
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« Reply #68 on: 22:52:49, 20-10-2007 » |
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Bryn, It cannot be called R3ok if it cannot be primarily a forum with a common interest in the music broadcast on Radio 3, the name cannot change so I felt it was time to suggest another forum for those who abused the regular members here and posted for their own political purposes. Non sequitur! The forum can be whatever the admins want it to be; it's not as if anyone has signed any binding contracts. That's like saying that Radio 3 has to have something to do with 3. Does it? Could we not also just as easily make this about 3-dimensional space, notated as R 3 in mathematics? Also, with regards to forum activity, M&S, while having fewer members than R3OK, had been since the split on the majority of days having more activity than over here. It's not reasonable to compare overall averages, or overall member numbers I think; better to look at the active memberships, which you'll see are more or less the same. Just a necessary correction (I think I'm right on those points anyway...). Not sure how to deal with the issue of voting. Possibly not allowing votes from people who haven't registered prior to the vote being announced (with the exception of those who removed their memberships in protest, of course). Will think more before saying anything about what I think of the vote itself. |
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« Last Edit: 23:00:56, 20-10-2007 by increpatio »
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #69 on: 23:06:14, 20-10-2007 » |
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with the exception of those who removed their memberships in protest, of course).
I'm uncertain whether that really is "of course"? It was one of the concerns which lay behind my question. We now have ex-members who said they were "never coming back" returning to start heated arguments (the same members who elsewhere have encouraged "leavers" to come over and delete their postings from here). Of course, it might be that some are interested in rejoining this community (in the sense of participation, rather than merely signing-up a login) if legitimate concerns they had could be addressed in ways that satisfy them. On the other hand, there is nothing (in the signup or voting process) to prevent people intent on damaging this board as much as possible from using "flying picket" methodology to further those aims. Perhaps there shouldn't be? But it would seem to me utterly and cynically hypocritical to vote on the future of a board which one has comprehensively dissed before leaving and slamming the door behind you. |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #70 on: 23:07:42, 20-10-2007 » |
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But it would seem to me utterly and cynically hypocritical to vote on the future of a board which one has comprehensively dissed before leaving and slamming the door behind you. What was dissed was the moderation that had been applied. |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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A
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« Reply #71 on: 23:24:42, 20-10-2007 » |
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Reiner... hear , hear.
A
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Well, there you are.
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Baziron
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« Reply #72 on: 23:32:56, 20-10-2007 » |
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But it would seem to me utterly and cynically hypocritical to vote on the future of a board which one has comprehensively dissed before leaving and slamming the door behind you. What was dissed was the moderation that had been applied. Baz |
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #73 on: 23:35:22, 20-10-2007 » |
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'Reality becomes its own ideology through the spell cast by its faithful duplication' Are you turning into an Adorno-ite, Baz? (can't see why commenting on the difference between a board and its moderation falls under the category of Adorno's statement, mind you) |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Baziron
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« Reply #74 on: 23:39:52, 20-10-2007 » |
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'Reality becomes its own ideology through the spell cast by its faithful duplication' Are you turning into an Adorno-ite, Baz? (can't see why commenting on the difference between a board and its moderation falls under the category of Adorno's statement, mind you) Baz |
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