Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #1380 on: 21:43:53, 18-03-2008 » |
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That's the disc I have -- and it's very beautifully recorded. The playing is marvelous. The music is ho-hum. The Folies d'Espagne in particular are ho hum ho drum and interminable at 11- 1/2 minutes.
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Baz
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« Reply #1381 on: 21:47:32, 18-03-2008 » |
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Still leaves 381. I'll offer another clue later about this English piano concerto from 1938.
Just for the heck of it I'll try the Arthur Bliss concerto. Is there only one? Looks like it. But who is the soloist? Since it was premiered by Solomon, he must be the soloist here I presume?
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #1382 on: 21:49:24, 18-03-2008 » |
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I'm listening to excerpts now, via iTunes! It seems that Marc Roger Normand went by a number of names; court documents in Turin refer to him as Marco Rogero Normano, as well as Couperin and its variations Couprin, Coprin, Cuoprin, Coprino or Coperino. Looking through my collection, I don't even have any François Couperin, let alone anything from any his family...
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #1383 on: 22:00:37, 18-03-2008 » |
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For François Couperin I can at least recommend the following: For Louis Couperin I can heartily recommend the Glen Wilson recording of the Préludes non mesurés which accompanies his own edition of the sheet music published by Breitkopf & Härtel. Extremely convincing interpretations in juicy mean-tone temperament. But if there's a better recording out there I have open ears for a recommendation. http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/detail_notice.php?no_article=BREIT12853They say it's by François Couperin at this otherwise excellent website but pay no attention.
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« Last Edit: 22:12:36, 18-03-2008 by oliver sudden »
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #1385 on: 22:09:04, 18-03-2008 » |
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Thanks for that, Ollie. What about Couperin on the piano? To be recommended? I don't exactly have an aversion to clevecin, but find a little goes a long way. I have some Rameau on both - Blandine Rannou (clavecin) and Tzimon Barto (piano) and find it's the piano disc which gets spun more. Perhaps I should dip my toe into both and see how I get on...(the Hantai is on iTunes, so am sampling now)
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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Turfan Fragment
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« Reply #1386 on: 22:12:11, 18-03-2008 » |
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Couperin is in my opinion rather meaningless in 12-note equal temperament; also, dynamics are composed with harpsichord in mind, i.e., using density and register rather than written dynamics, so the piano cannot capitalize on this as well.
But that's only one person's opinion.
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #1387 on: 22:25:47, 18-03-2008 » |
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Re Couperin, I find this set to be most satisfactory for those voracious completists among us of which I am one: This is not I do not believe the complete harpsichord music (the legend on the box notwithstanding), but it contains the complete Quatre livres. Fine playing, beautiful recorded sound, and the price is right. It's not in equal temperament either.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #1388 on: 22:30:30, 18-03-2008 » |
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You always lose something in terms of harmony playing Baroque music on the piano - Baroque tuning systems all have a different 'taste' not only between the keys but between the different chords in a single key so the harmonic tension is different.
In J.S. Bach you can almost get away with that - the system he used was close enough to equal temperament that using equal temperament doesn't completely cripple the music. (Although if you hear Richard Egarr's recording of the first book of the Well-Tempered Clavier you'll hear - I hope! - how much more there is to this harmony than equal temperament can deliver.) For my money in earlier Baroque repertoire (both Louis and François Couperin for example) you simply lose too much if you play the music in equal temperament.
As far as the instruments go: there's one problem in that a harpsichord tuned in equal temperament won't sing as it was meant to because there are hardly any really pure intervals. So on a lot of harpsichord recordings you're simply not hearing the instrument properly - once you get used to the way it should be, equal temperament sounds somehow sour and vinegary on a harpsichord I reckon. There's another problem in that often harpsichords aren't well recorded. And there's another in that ears are sometimes not used to the sound.
The Hantaï and Meyerson discs both have damn good harpsichords properly tuned and recorded. Meyerson is an extremely outgoing performer and her Forqueray, Duphly and Couperin are the kind of thing I would use to demonstrate to an as-yet-unconvinced listener what a harpsichord can do.
So no, piano in Couperin, not for me. In effect you're hearing an arrangement of the music, and for me it's one where you lose too much.
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« Last Edit: 22:32:05, 18-03-2008 by oliver sudden »
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #1389 on: 22:41:51, 18-03-2008 » |
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Thanks Turfan Fragment, Evan and Ollie for those illuminating thoughts. I strongly expected you to argue in favour of the harpsichord and, as someone who almost always prefers baroque and classical music on 'period instruments', it doesn't really feel 'right' going for the piano option. The only Bach I have for keyboard is, again, on piano (Hewitt and Barenboim). Your reasoning about tuning/ temperament makes sense to me (and why Bach could be more successful on piano than Couperin or Rameau) and the problem about some harpsichord recordings which Ollie points out is one I wouldn't have foreseen. (You do learn such a lot here!) I've listened to some Hantai clips plus the Meyerson, which is also on iTunes (how the 'classical' catalogue on there has expanded recently!), and I do like the sound of the Meyerson disc in particular - characterful playing and it also appears to be a carefully constructed programme.
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #1390 on: 22:45:41, 18-03-2008 » |
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Check out some of her Forqueray and Duphly if that's there too. Some of it's absolutely stunning. Maybe try Forqueray's Le Carillon de Passy and Duphly's Medée for a quick taste? Quite intoxicating. http://www.mitzi-meyerson.de/
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #1391 on: 23:02:59, 18-03-2008 » |
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...and here's some Louis Couperin in the recording I mentioned before. One of the unmeasured preludes. Maybe especially here you can hear how the harmonic tension relies on the temperament? http://www.sendspace.com/file/opia92
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #1392 on: 23:24:08, 18-03-2008 » |
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...and here's some Louis Couperin in the recording I mentioned before. One of the unmeasured preludes. Maybe especially here you can hear how the harmonic tension relies on the temperament? http://www.sendspace.com/file/opia92Thanks for that intriguing prelude, Ollie. Real food for thought there. I think the Meyerson Couperin disc is the place to start and have just placed an order! 375 is Symphony no 11 by Joachim Raff. (Perhaps)
Is incorrect, I'm afraid, Mr Watson... But awfully close.....
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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Il Grande Inquisitor
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« Reply #1393 on: 23:46:48, 18-03-2008 » |
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375 Raff Symphony No.10
(Sorry if I snitch that without listening)
Tommo
No, sorry, Mr 1780; that is incorrect... ...and we would be hoping for a subtitle for the symphony too...
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Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
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richard barrett
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« Reply #1394 on: 01:03:27, 19-03-2008 » |
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I think the Meyerson Couperin disc is the place to start and have just placed an order!
I haven't heard it but I'm sure you're right - I've been greatly enjoying her recording of the complete harpsichord suites by Georg Böhm (1661-1733), whose work was clearly an inspiration for JS Bach's keyboard suites but which has an individuality and variety of its own. I have a very nice complete recording of Louis Couperin's harpsichord music by Davitt Moroney, which was a cheap 4CD set on Harmonia Mundi but seems no longer to be available.
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