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Author Topic: Waffle Rides Again!  (Read 96175 times)
martle
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« Reply #5400 on: 22:33:47, 08-11-2008 »

Wine doesn't work for me, martle - it just makes me feel ill. Chocolate is better.

I just don't like Saturdays for some reason. Perhaps it's a vague feeling that everyone else is having a good time.

...but I don't think they are, always. It's that 'someone's having a party and I'm not invited' feeling. But most parties I've been to have made me want to dash home... Cheesy

Sundays are worse than Saturdays for me. My mother (a schoolteacher most of her life) hated them, especially during the evening when the bells sounded at the Abbey down the road. Solemn ritual, and a call somehow to classroom duty the next day.

(I've always loved the sound of bells, though. In fact, my first words were, allegedly, 'Abbey bells'.  Smiley )
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Green. Always green.
Mary Chambers
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« Reply #5401 on: 22:52:24, 08-11-2008 »

Parties tend to have that effect on me too, Martle Smiley I quite like Sundays now, but I used to hate them when I was a teenager, finding them claustrophobic and boring.

"Abbey bells" are very musical first words! I've no idea what mine were, but my children's were "banana" and "light" (when a light was switched on) - they both had the same first words, very odd, though I think in a different order. Not as good as "Abbey bells".

I'm going to read for a bit now, and then try to get some sleep. Perhaps things will seem better in the morning.

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Ruth Elleson
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« Reply #5402 on: 23:47:51, 08-11-2008 »

"Abbey bells" are very musical first words! I've no idea what mine were, but my children's were "banana" and "light"

Shocked My first word was also "banana"!
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Oft hat ein Seufzer, deiner Harf' entflossen,
Ein süßer, heiliger Akkord von dir
Den Himmel beßrer Zeiten mir erschlossen,
Du holde Kunst, ich danke dir dafür!
oliver sudden
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« Reply #5403 on: 23:59:37, 08-11-2008 »

Shocked My first word was also "banana"!
Mine was "switch", I'm told...
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Janthefan
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« Reply #5404 on: 10:46:31, 09-11-2008 »

Hope you're feeling brighter, Mary

x Jan x
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #5405 on: 10:51:57, 09-11-2008 »

Thanks, Jan. I'm not, though Sad. I slept incredibly badly, and am behaving like an invalid today. When I get a good sleep I'll be OK, I expect.
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #5406 on: 10:58:19, 09-11-2008 »

I always feel very sad when I hear about marriages going wrong. Why does it happen so much more now than it used to?

Today's throw-away society.  Divorce is so much easier as well.  Many people aren't prepared to make an effort these days.  It's all about give and take.  When you are truly committed you will compromise and rather than waste time arguing and fighting, you often just let things go.  Nowadays the attitude is "Why should I?"  and "Oh well if it doesn't work out we can always get divorced."  The result of that is that few people seem to really go into it as a lifetime commitment, with all that would entail.  Leaving religion right out of it, the words are true that say "for better or worse, in sickness and in health, for richer for poorer" - it all applies, religious or not.  There isn't the same staying power. It's all quite depressing when you consider the misery that results, especially for the children.  When I say that, the brigade appears that says "Better to be apart than be miserable because that makes the kids unhappy."  I would argue that it would be much better to make an effort on both sides to be civilised, except in extreme cases, and make everybody happy.

I hope you feel better today Mary.  I feel unaccountably a bit "down" this morning for no reason at all that I can think off.  We're off to football practice shortly so that will cheer me up.
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harmonyharmony
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WWW
« Reply #5407 on: 12:16:31, 09-11-2008 »

Without getting to deeply into this, because my ignorance is as deep on the subject as my knowledge is superficial, I think that there's also a sense in which, as a culture, we talk about these things more often. It no longer seems to be socially unacceptable to talk about difficulties in relationships, which can be a very good thing. The idea of two people locked together forever when they made a mistake earlier on is not a pleasant prospect.
The problem comes when this is combined with an insufficiently considered approach to marriage itself. I was quite shocked when a friend of mine was contemplating their forthcoming marriage and said '... and if it doesn't work out, well that's what divorce is for!'.
If I was in my parents' generation, I imagine that I would have got married a couple of years ago. Even though I thought I knew her well at the time and we were really happy together then, I think that she would have been quite unhappy later on judging by what came out of the woodwork during the collapse of our relationship.
But enough.
I might upset people if I say that I would like marriage to be entirely 'divorced' (ahem) from its religious context. It should primarily be a secular, legal affair (IMO) with a further religious element added later on. A bit like birth registration and baptism.

My first words were not recorded. I was the fourth baby and apparently did nothing extraordinary. I imagine that juggling the rest of the family meant that record keeping got a bit fraught as well!

I rather spectacularly overslept this morning, having got in late last night. I had hoped to have got a lot of work done by now.
I've been feeling a bit anxious recently about the amount of work I have to get done over the next seven six days, but this morning I just feel a sense of resignation. I will achieve what is possible.
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anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #5408 on: 12:39:58, 09-11-2008 »

Marriage can be entirely secular, hh. Mine was, and so was my son's. In fact, he said they were not allowed to mention God at his Register Office ceremony.

I entirely agree that people should not be locked into a miserable relationship. I just feel many give up too easily, and perhaps ask themselves too many questions about how happy or "in love" they are. (I always felt that "For better, for worse" should be qualified with "It depends how much worse"  Grin)
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Antheil
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« Reply #5409 on: 12:51:17, 09-11-2008 »

The high incidence of divorce is a sign of how much society has changed since, I would think, the late 50s/early 60s?  Illegitimacy is no longer a stigma, there are no longer "shotgun marriages" anymore.

I agree with Mary totally.

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Reality, sa molesworth 2, is so sordid it makes me shudder
Milly Jones
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« Reply #5410 on: 13:02:23, 09-11-2008 »

Quote
I might upset people if I say that I would like marriage to be entirely 'divorced' (ahem) from its religious context. It should primarily be a secular, legal affair (IMO) with a further religious element added later on. A bit like birth registration and baptism.

I agree.  However the words I quoted still apply, because that's life.
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #5411 on: 13:04:32, 09-11-2008 »

The high incidence of divorce is a sign of how much society has changed since, I would think, the late 50s/early 60s?

It's of a piece with how much life in general has changed, isn't it? My parents have been married for nearly 40 years; they lived in one house in the outer suburbs for over a decade, then moved to a house a bit further in, where they've now lived for nearly 24 years. My father worked for the same employer for over 40 years. I don't know if someone growing up today could have that kind of stability if they wanted to - in the city where I grew up people just leaving school can hardly afford to rent, let alone buy, and certainly not a house. Nowadays both partners need to work and even if you want to commit to a job long-term the concept of an employer committing to an employee disappeared quite some time ago so a relationship is under the pressures of two inevitably wandering careers rather than resting on one potentially stable one.

You can hardly expect one kind of relationship to endure when all our other relationships are so fragile, surely? Certainly just pointing the finger at couples seems ridiculous to me when all the other conditions we live under are so different.
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #5412 on: 13:10:01, 09-11-2008 »

BTW, our marriage was entirely secular. Registry Office.  No mention of God.  Given life's vicissitudes and in spite of them all,  we could not have been happier.

I've just seen Olly's post.  My husband was in his job from the age of 18 - 31.5 years to his death.  I worked for more than 20 years and nowadays, it is true, that people cannot expect a job for life.  Whilst there are different stresses today than those of, say my parents, who had WWII to contend with,  a depression afterwards through the 50s and many social changes from then on, I don't see why events of today should interfere any more with relationships than those of yesteryear.  My parents were divorced but through personality clash rather than outside events.
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brassbandmaestro
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The ties that bind


« Reply #5413 on: 13:46:48, 09-11-2008 »

Myself and MrsBBM have been married now for six years since 02/12/08!! Registry job as well which is a lot better in some ways. We were able to choose our music as well. Of, my recordings came in rather useful there!
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #5414 on: 13:56:54, 09-11-2008 »

I don't think I'm "pointing the finger". I'm trying to work out why things have changed. I'd have thought that it is precisely because of the stresses that the stability of a relationship is so valuable. As Milly says, past generations had different stresses - in the case of my parents, the Depression of the '30s as well as the Second World War. The First World War hung over their childhoods - my father actually remembered the beginning of it, when he was 7 years old. Hardly an easy life. My generation had it reasonably easy apart from our wartime start, but we were less concerned with ourselves than the current one, I think. We grew up with rationing, and weren't so greedy.

Sorry to sound like a grumpy old woman Smiley. I'm in a bad mood, and I suppose I am fearful for my children.
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