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Author Topic: Where do I begin...?  (Read 1894 times)
George Garnett
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« Reply #45 on: 16:13:53, 06-06-2008 »

And there was I thinking I could detect the occasional hommage to Stan Tracey in your playing at the ICA, martle.

Talking of which, a good excuse to ask. This has been issued recently:



From "recently discovered" (it says) tapes of a 1970s concert at the ICA with the two of them improvising together. Looks unmissable. Have any of you jazzboffins heard it and what do you reckon?   
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martle
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« Reply #46 on: 17:20:07, 06-06-2008 »

And there was I thinking I could detect the occasional hommage to Stan Tracey in your playing at the ICA, martle.

Subconsciously, quite possibly, George. I soaked enough of it up. But I never noted what the albums were. Thanks for that Tippett/Tracey spot, and thanks also to the Dog.  Smiley
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Green. Always green.
Jellybaby7
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« Reply #47 on: 19:28:04, 06-06-2008 »

GG, this album is a very nice idea....played on JLU Aprilish....do not remember it being anything special....
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Tantris
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Posts: 152



« Reply #48 on: 10:31:33, 13-06-2008 »

I'd recommend anything from Cecil Taylor's 1988 concerts in Berlin, most of which are available on the FMP label. Some of the larger ensembles - e.g. Alms / Tiergarten - achieve an intensity that essentially defined the parameters of free improvisation from then on. And the solo piano concert, Erzulie Maketh Scent, is transcendent.

With Anthony Braxton, I'd skip most of the 70s and 80s for the time being - you can always go back later - and start with the Ghost Trance Music. Try some of the Yoshi concerts released on the Leo label, or the 2006 Quartet recordings just out on 'Important Records'.

Alternatively, you might find some of these interesting;

Charles Mingus - The Black Saint and Sinner Lady (indeed, any Mingus from the late 50's through to mid-60s)

Duke Ellington - Such Sweet Thunder

For Miles Davis, perhaps try Live at the Plugged Nickel, possibly his most complete statement? For Coltrane, Live at the Village Vanguard is where you see the language of bebop being deconstructed and a completely new language emerging, taken even further in the sublime Live at the Village Vanguard Again.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #49 on: 10:46:35, 13-06-2008 »

Some of the larger ensembles - e.g. Alms / Tiergarten - achieve an intensity that essentially defined the parameters of free improvisation from then on. And the solo piano concert, Erzulie Maketh Scent, is transcendent.
Yes indeed.

With Anthony Braxton, I'd skip most of the 70s and 80s for the time being - you can always go back later - and start with the Ghost Trance Music. Try some of the Yoshi concerts released on the Leo label, or the 2006 Quartet recordings just out on 'Important Records'.
Hm. Another Braxton multiple CD I now have to add to my wants list. The thing about AB's work of the 70s and 80s is that a lot of it (eg. New York, Fall 1974) is not so far outside the boundaries of JAZZ. Ghost Trance Music, on the other hand, is essentially a new kind of music altogether and I don't know whether I'd recommend it to someone who was specifically interested in exploring jazz as such. On the other hand I would recommend it to anyone interested in "contemporary music" of any kind (including jazz) because I think that, especially in its more highly-developed form of the last few years, it's the most engaging and inspiring new musical phenomenon I've come across for a long time.
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mr improv
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« Reply #50 on: 15:26:50, 13-06-2008 »

if you like jazz
you wont like anthony braxton
it's far too intelligent
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Turfan Fragment
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Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #51 on: 15:45:58, 13-06-2008 »

What am I doing here? Oh, I guess my Brax-dar went off.

If you skip the music of the 70's and 80's of Braxton, don't forget to go back to it later..

Since Tantris mentioned lesser-known Duke E, I thought I'd mention my favourite album of his: Money Jungle, it's called. I don't know why it's called that. The man had a remarkable sonic imagination if I may say so.
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Tantris
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« Reply #52 on: 15:48:06, 13-06-2008 »

The thing about AB's work of the 70s and 80s is that a lot of it (eg. New York, Fall 1974) is not so far outside the boundaries of JAZZ. Ghost Trance Music, on the other hand, is essentially a new kind of music altogether and I don't know whether I'd recommend it to someone who was specifically interested in exploring jazz as such. On the other hand I would recommend it to anyone interested in "contemporary music" of any kind (including jazz) because I think that, especially in its more highly-developed form of the last few years, it's the most engaging and inspiring new musical phenomenon I've come across for a long time.

Gosh - my thoughts almost exactly! I think that his earlier work - including the marvellous New York, Fall 1974, and the Creative Orchestra compositions, are very much about music, and music tradition (and the politics associated with that) - whereas GTM is something else entirely - a new language, indeed.

I forgot to mention the Art Ensemble of Chicago in response to the original poster - Urban Bushmen on the ECM label is excellent and (hopefully) easy to find - or some of their live concerts on the BYG label from the late 60s or early 70s - it's engrossing, fascinating music that (imho) provided some of the structure for GTM.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #53 on: 15:57:24, 13-06-2008 »

Urban Bushmen on the ECM label is excellent and (hopefully) easy to find - or some of their live concerts on the BYG label from the late 60s or early 70s - it's engrossing, fascinating music that (imho) provided some of the structure for GTM.
I've always thought it showed the AEC at their best, but I hadn't previously made the connection with GTM. Time to listen again.
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Turfan Fragment
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Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #54 on: 16:16:16, 13-06-2008 »

I'd recommend anything from Cecil Taylor's 1988 concerts in Berlin, most of which are available on the FMP label. Some of the larger ensembles - e.g. Alms / Tiergarten (Spree) - achieve an intensity that essentially defined the parameters of free improvisation from then on.
That album is Taylor-made for these boards due to the appearance of

Peter Brötzmann on tarogato.

Such an odd sound, hard to mistake it for anything else -- it's so obviously not a clarinet or a saxophone, nor some imaginary timbre in between. Great stuff, this album (it's now spinning here)

And here's a picture of the Spree:
« Last Edit: 16:42:26, 13-06-2008 by Turfan Fragment » Logged

richard barrett
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« Reply #55 on: 16:39:45, 13-06-2008 »

That album is Taylor-made for these boards
Damn it! that's the only one of those recordings I don't have. I shall soon put that right.
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mr improv
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« Reply #56 on: 16:46:20, 13-06-2008 »

i'm a bit dumbfounded by brotzman of late
i mean he just seems to be going round in a hamster wheel
hasnt he just been playing exactly the same thing
wherever he is for about 10 15 years or more

mind you i'm beginning to feel like that abuot evan parker too

am i just missing the point ?
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Turfan Fragment
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Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #57 on: 16:59:41, 13-06-2008 »

Couldn't tell you, mr improv -- perhaps I should have just highlighted the word tarogato, which had been a subject of discussion late last year here on r3ok. A cool instrument.

Others know the work of Brötzmann better than I do, but I can post the solo in question later on today.
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richard barrett
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« Reply #58 on: 17:06:16, 13-06-2008 »

i'm a bit dumbfounded by brotzman of late
i mean he just seems to be going round in a hamster wheel
hasnt he just been playing exactly the same thing
wherever he is for about 10 15 years or more

I haven't heard any Brötzmann for a few years so I can't really comment on that, but he never had much of a wide range of expression, did he? Alan Wilkinson has for me the same kind of intensity but his pplaying is much more subtle. Which reminds me, two excerpts of the Wilkinson/Thomas/Coxon/Noble quartet at the Vortex I was raving about are now up at youtube. As for Evan, I have the impression that things have definitely been changing in the last couple of years - more emphasis on tenor, more melodic playing, less of the extended soprano textures...?
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mr improv
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« Reply #59 on: 17:33:14, 13-06-2008 »

yes i guess if there's a change in evan's playing it's less to my personal tastes. more melodic and very on the saxophone so to speak. i read somewhere he's lisnin to a lot of john coltrane, not a good move for any free improvising tenor playing i'd say.

and i agree with you to some extent re wilkinson. i saw him at the cube in bristol lately and there was a degree of range in there. though it was greatly straight ahead skronk. he did a fair bit of mintonesque voclalsing too !! good old noble was fairly expressive too in his theatrical way, he put in a range of drum experiences i thought. john edwards fairly thumped away on his bass, heavily amplified, fairly de rigour i thought.

i didtn understand your reservations re buthcer and nakamura richard. i can imagine the no input stuff is a bit random and non-structured for your tastes HuhHuh??
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