I have to share an anecdote about that... I have a friend in one of the major orchestras ( better not say more!!) .. I met her after a concert and said,'I liked the conductor' , her reply was ' Oh I never look at them'
This from an oboist was quite amusing!! (I am sure she meant it too!!)

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Absolutley, there's a balance to be had.  One important thing I mentioned is the arch shape for the finger, using the natural curve to create an inherently strong shape which the muscle action then just supports.  At the same time, ensuring that this isn't becoming a pinch between finger and thumb, that the thumb remains relaxed, and there is a feeling that any downwards pressure from fingers is distributed through the instrument towards the shoulder and collarbone.

Another long-winded bulleted list for my method:

• Hold the violin normally, and add additional support by holding the side of body with the right hand, so the left hand is free to do whatever it wants.
• With the thumb resting in its normal position on the neck, and fingers curved in the air above fingerboard, gently slide the hand towards you and back again.  Both upper and lower arm should be involved, with the V-shape they form closing up and opening again, which you can check in a mirror.  Aim for a smooth, fluid back-and-forth motion.
• Do the same, with all fingers gently touching (not depressing) the A string.  The friction between fingertip and string should cause them to curl as the hand moves up towards you, and straighten slightly as you move down.  When comfortable, do the same with the second finger only.
• Depress the finger onto the fingerboard, and do the same again.  Ensure the thumb is relaxed and pointing upwards throughout all of this.  At all times the finger should be curved, to a greater or lesser amount depending on the direction of the slide.
• Reduce the motion to a smaller slide, bit by bit, and eventually the thumb will no longer need to slide, only rock from side to side, and the finger will remain on the spot, with the straightening and curling now producing a slow-motion vibrato action.  Check in the mirror that the upper and lower arms are still moving.  At this point you can take the right hand away (you did still have it there, didn't you?)
• Repeat with other fingers, and on other strings - we started with 2 because it is (normally) the longest finger, so 1 often is more tricky.
• Gradually speed up the motion, always checking the thumb is relaxed and rocking from side to side, and that the two halves of the arm are always creating the motion, the fingers being passive throughout.

For higher positions, the thumb is rooted to the top of the underside of the neck (there's a name for that bit, I'm sure), the hand and fingers create one continuous curved shape across to the fingerboard, and the same arm motion creates the same vibrato action.  A couple of useful things with this method is that the same arm motion can be useful for introducing position-changing, and that it works for continuous vibrato from one note to the next, vibrato on 2/3/4 note chords, etc.  It's also handy as a quick 'oh shit, the rehearsal starts in one minute' warmup.


A good one to stump most conductors is "Do you want this passage with or without vibrato?"

I like it owain.  A very useful approach to starting vibrato.  Quite a lot has been written on this forum about vibrato.....

http://r3ok.myforum365.com/index.php?topic=743.0

The opening gambit is duff, but the topic sort of managed to drift into sensible-land.  Some of my thoughts on vibrato are in reply 20.

A lot of it is taste.  I prefer a vibrato which sounds quite what you describe - led by the elbow joint opening and closing, with movement in shoulder and hand  (is that right?).  The thumb position you describe for high notes means that this arm movement translates into much more of an up and down vibrato the higher you get, which seems to suit the instrumet high up.

But several players I know like wrist vibrato (and even finger).  I'm sure there are works where it would be appropriate, but I'm not sure I can identify them....

Tommo

   *miaow*    flap flap flap

I really like extraneous, instrument-related noises.  I wouldn't want to hear fingers crashing onto the fingerboard all the time, but every now and then I enjoy the addition of a bit of percussion.

I also really like the growling/squeaking sound that electric guitar/bass players get when they drag their fingers over their strings.  I was delighted to get a similar effect when I tried an "authentically" wound string for the first time!

(Modern wound strings use a flat wire, so the surface of the string is very smooth.  That's a relatively new development - they used to use round wire and then (maybe) smooth down the bumps - but that still leaves a rougher surface than a modern string - hence the growling/squeaking sound when shifting!  Hooray!)

I also like creaks and cracks in fortepianos as they show the strain of being pushed to their limits, the soft thud of shifting registers in a harpsichord, the squeaks oboists make into their reeds (admittedly this one doesn't come up within performances), etc etc

I must admit I never quite understood the difference between arm, wrist and finger vibrato.  All three are involved, yes?  Maybe it's a matter of which of the three is the "engine."  Again, I think flexibility is key - you can get a much calmer, stiller effect if you play down the arm movement and keep it contained in the hand.  If you use a VERY exaggerated and slow wrist vibrato, you get a weird wobble that can be a fantastic effect - use instead of a trill, for example.  (One place to consider that is the end of the first movement of Bach's A-minor solo sonata - where the first sixth has a wiggly line over it but the actual trill is specifically written over the second sixth.  Or you could do something throbbing with the bow instead.)

I haven't encountered that with violin strings, but it does ring a faint bell - maybe I've heard bass players discussing it at some point.  I'll bear the question in mind and get back to you.

No, I don't know Lachenmann's work, although the description I just glanced at on Wikipedia sounds interesting.

My gut reaction    is to worry about the safety of the instrument.  We instrumentalists can get very precious about harming our instruments (sometimes as a way of concealing deep suspicions of unusual or experimental music), but it is an issue at times.  My violin is 350 years old, and I don't consider myself its owner as much as its temporary custodian.  I want to pass it on in good condition.

But assuming that's not an issue, I also wonder to what extent I want to separate physical noises from disembodied sounds.  I think what I find interesting is how they are part of the same sound, and are inextricably linked.  That's not to say I shouldn't explore something I don't know, of course!

Me too strina, My instrument is also about that age and fairly fragile. It comes unstuck sometimes as it has a fat belly which I feel gives it a lot of tension around the seams, so hitting it is not really an option... it is too precious!!

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