I almost agree with this, but I'm not happy with the half inch!  In practice, I can see that what you describe is right, but as an ideal I would like to be able to just go to g and hit it dead on every time.

And as for 'learning' that feeling, I still think it is hearing and eyesight that gets you there (eyesight more when you are starting out, and hearing in more advanced practice).


Oh yes.  Don't I know it. Especially if it is to a lower position but a higher number finger  (e.g. 2nd finger in 7th position to 3rd finger in 4rd position).  Getting the transition to sound clean takes a lot of practice. Perhaps it is best to avoid these fingerings, but sometimes you cannot do anything better.......

Tommo

Glad to have you back on this thread A!  And thanks to GG for the nomination!

Having picked out Ysaye Sonatas for Strina on IMSLP today, I had a look for other flashy things.  Ernst's Last Rose of Summer came to mind.  And ho ho ho I had a go.  Excuse me, but is this for real?  And how can Gidon Kremer make it sound so easy.  (I have feeling it has little to do with tonights alcoholic exesses.....)

Tommo

Ho Tommo,

I know I have a bit of a 'thing' about Delius, but have any string players out there played the violin sonatas? The second is the most accessible but the Posthumous ( in B ) is the most lovely ... IMHO.

Do give them a go if you want something different.

I have the music for the violin sonata of York Bowen ( discussed way back on thei thread) it is very difficult but rather interesting.

Both these aforementioned composers wrote stinking piano parts though so this limits their performance in an amateur situation unfortunately!

A

I don't know them at all.  I've just had a look at the first on IMSLP and it looks OK.  Thanks for the heads up - I have a ton of other music to learn at the moment, but I will kepe these in mind.  Not enough Delius gets played, IFAM

Tommo

Ho Ollie, thanks for that - I shall have to seek that out as well then!

I've thoroughly enjoyed his Raff recordings, there are some real gems in there which are well worth being better known (hint, Radio 3)!

I have the Schirmer too - which looks more like a Durand edition to me, thanks to its fonts, etc.

The IMSLP has differences - fonts, and in bar 31, 'legg' appears below the stave rather than above as in my edition.  But most will be similar, because of what Ysaye says:


I haven't found many 'errors' (penultimate note of bar 5 of Sonate 3 should be 4 over 3 rather than 3 over 4), and I hardly ever dare deviate from Ysaye's instructions!  I've always take 5 to mean an extended 4th finger.  The 2nd bar of the 6th variation in Dans Des Ombres doesn't seem to make sense either way!

Now I feel inadequate!

Tommo

Ysaÿe's explanation of his symbols at the front of the Schirmer edition say that a "5" in a little box means "Poser le doigt sur la quinte juste."  It doesn't seem to come up very often, but it does in places where the fifth isn't immediately apparent.

For instance, in the "Obsession" sonata, Danse des Ombres, 1st variation, there's a third E-G with fingerings to indicate playing it in third position on the G and D strings - plus there's a little "5" above the fingerings, implying you should put your first finger over both strings, as the lower line is about to move down to a D then C, while the upper line moves up to an A.  So you never actually play a fifth - but having the finger in that position helps the lines flow smoothly.

Unfortunately, the typesetter put this "5" in a little circle instead of a little box.  And Ysaÿe says that numbers in a circle mean "En se maintenant sur une corde."  I didn't think a 5-string violin would have been standard in those days...   

That one in Var.6 is very odd, with that funny half-bracket over it.  Could it mean, when you put your first finger on the A-sharp, put it on both A and E strings in a fifth - then shift up to the C-sharp keeping your first finger over both strings?  If I tried it, my finger would slip right in between the two strings!  But if you had a broad enough finger, it would make finding the subsequent notes on the A-string much quicker - no crawling or placing necessary, they'd already be there.

Most of the places where I've spotted the 5 seem to be places where barring the 5th would help keep left-finger motion to a minimum - but that one is strange.  Seems more trouble than it's worth.

Are we scaring off the beginners yet?   

Let me know if the shifting-the-barred-fifth idea works for you, Tommo!

I tend to write a 4 in a little circle to mean extended 4th finger.  Not sure how well my brain would process the notion of having a 5th finger...  managing just the four is already tricky enough sometimes.  But I use extensions (both up and back) so often these days I don't write them in any more.

As for other odd notations - I use an inverted large "V" to indicate half-steps, which I've seen others use, but I also use a symbol to indicate whole or augmented-whole steps, which looks a bit like this:

  __
 \   /

except joined up at the corners.  I made it angled out like that to avoid confusion with the downbow symbol.

I sometimes use those two symbols sideways next to double stops or chords when the fingers would be placed in half-step or whole-step position if they were on the same string.

Other than that, I scribble a lot of rubbish - lots of weirdly shaped lines depending on how I want to shape a note; commas; stress or non-stress marks (like you'd use in scanning poetry); wiggly lines (either for rubato or to indicate a chance to do an elaborate ornament without actually writing anything down); arrows pointing to where the harmony does something strong but not evident in my part.

How I've written things has shifted over the last few years.  I write "more" instead of "f" and "less" or "shh" instead of "p" - partly to avoid confusion with the composer's markings, partly to remind myself to keep an eye (ear? hand?) on relative structure rather than merely obey a schematic.

I often put down a few words to remind myself what moods or colours I'm searching for (especially in orchestral parts where there's not much rehearsal time and I don't know the music particularly thoroughly).  Words like "sparkly," "oozing" and "fluffy" seem to come up a lot.

The better I know a piece, the more I use my rubber rather than my pencil.  And I'd love to get to the stage where I don't have to write anything at all.  Ha!  Not likely.

Do you find you get unreasonably annoyed if you have a desk partner whose markings you don't like or don't understand?  For some reason I can't bear it when someone draws look-at-the-conductor-spectacles front-on with the ear stems pointing in opposite directions.  It looks like someone's sat on them.  I draw mine from a 3/4 side view, so the stems go the same way.  Much less destructive, and slightly more 3-dimensional.   

I promise to try describing spiccato next, to get the virtual-violin beginners back on board!  Meanwhile, I hope you've been practising your scales.  If you're bored, do them in rhythms to get used to using the bow faster - TUM tiddle TUM tiddle on each note.

I'd better do some scales myself now.