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Author Topic: At Least Ninety-Six Crackpot Interpretations  (Read 11251 times)
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #450 on: 09:48:42, 13-07-2008 »

First of all to-day we wish to say a further word about Samuel - who is pictured posing here as he was in 1905:


Yesterday we suggested that he had written ten piano sonatas, but in fact he wrote twelve. A member has kindly brought to our attention the fact that all these have been recorded by Nikolaos Samaltanos and Christophe Sirodeau, and we are already taking steps to acquire the fruit of their efforts.

And Grove tells us that Samuel "held in his memory the entirety of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier" - as well as all thirty-two of Beethoven's sonatas, all ten of Scryabine's, and much of the work of Chopin and Schumann.

That is the stuff of true genius is not it?
« Last Edit: 13:51:18, 13-07-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Sydney Grew
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« Reply #451 on: 10:55:34, 13-07-2008 »

To-day we turn to Bach in D, and specifically the D major Prelude from Book I of his "Well-Tempered Clavier for the use and profit of the musical youth desirous of learning" (rapid-share / send-space).

It is not very polyphonic is it; particularly not at the beginning. Instead it points towards the music of the decades which were to come. And towards the end it begins to sound like an organ work, even.

Tovey wonders whether the bass note of the big chord at bar thirty-three should be an A (as is written in no fewer than three autographs) or a B (as "in the copies of pupils" and in his own edition). We wonder whether Mr. Iron has a view on that matter.

Here as contrast is a virile performance of the work on the harpsichord by another new comer, Hans by name. He was born in 1914 but is evidently still going strong after ninety-four years.


Besides playing Bach, he administered the Berlin Opera-House for many years and has published a number of books, of which several have distinctly political overtones:

"Music and Revolution" (1948),
"Battler for a German national music" (1953),
"Music in China" (1955),
"Jean Philip Rameau's Theory of Harmony" (1963),
"Premières I have Known" (Autobiography, 1986),
"Tasten, Taten, Träume" (Keys/Groping, Deeds, Dreams - Music and Politics between Utopia and Reality - another Autobiography, 2006).
« Last Edit: 13:53:30, 13-07-2008 by Sydney Grew » Logged
Baz
Guest
« Reply #452 on: 11:26:54, 13-07-2008 »


Tovey wonders whether the bass note of the big chord at bar thirty-three should be an A (as is written in no fewer than three autographs) or a B (as "in the copies of pupils" and in his own edition). We wonder whether Mr. Iron has a view on that matter.


Mr Iron may be getting a little rusty over such details, and perhaps some of his previous brittleness is wearing off? But we feel that either reading makes eminent sense. If the bottom note is A, then this prolongs the dominant pedal harmony begun at bar 27 right through to the final cadence (with the cadenza-like flourish merely added above for effect). But if the bottom note is played as B, this establishes a rising-bass melody that moves again up to the C# (bar 34) followed by the D.

In the end, though, I feel greater weight attaches to the former if only because this is what Bach wrote (even if he later sanctioned the alternative).

Baz
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Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #453 on: 09:48:56, 14-07-2008 »

To-day we present a lunatic rendition of what is a crackpot work in the first place: the "Fugue" in D major from Bach's First Book - well at least Bach began it as a sort of fugue, but half-way through he abandoned the idea and turned it into a French Overture instead (rapid-share / send-space)! Tovey gives an extraordinarily complex explanation of those dotted notes which have exercised members in another thread, saying that "the value of the dot varies in a way that cannot be well represented by modernising the notation." He further tells us that at many points - but by no means everywhere - "the tendency should be to sharpen the rhythmic jerk."

Who then among all our executants is likely in these circumstances to be authoritative? We do not know and had best offer a wide selection in this instance.

Hans whose virile rendition we present first is his being a battler for a German nationalist music and having ninety-four years of experience behind him probably the closest to the true Bach performance tradition. His interpretation is a striking one because he seems actually to stretch the bars! This sort of elastic rhythm is what makes the Viennese waltzes such as the Blue Danube so effective is not it.

Wanda having run a school in France should have known something about the French style, so here is what she makes of the work. In fact her solid rendition is the one we like best of all these.

The fascinating Samuel, whitewashed out of British histories of music by sinister functionaries such as Mr. Lebrecht, would probably given his background also be adept at the French style; his does in fact turn out to be a well-rounded interpretation, with a good grasp of form, but we do not know whether it displays any truly exceptional sensitivity; the piece is not the most suitable one for displays of that kind.

Rosalyn has a good reputation too, although we cannot tell whether it is deserved exactly: she plays the work very slowly and carefully so perhaps her timing of those dots is good. But she cannot resist inserting her own little twiddle on the final note.

We had not at first intended to do so, but let us now for good measure throw in Glenn. His dotted notes certainly differ from those of the rest, and about three quarters of the way through we hear him shouting in excitement even - we suppose Bach would have approved - but were there such creatures as Americans in his day?

We have not heard from Léon for some considerable time. How does he manage all these fine points we wonder. Is he still fumbling his way and out of his depth among the true masters?
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #454 on: 10:12:54, 14-07-2008 »

....sinister functionaries such as Mr. Lebrecht....

Does this represent a diminution of your previously professed praise, Mr Grew? Was not this personage until quite recently 'the admirable Lebrecht'?
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Baz
Guest
« Reply #455 on: 15:10:19, 14-07-2008 »

To-day we present a lunatic rendition of what is a crackpot work in the first place: the "Fugue" in D major from Bach's First Book - well at least Bach began it as a sort of fugue, but half-way through he abandoned the idea and turned it into a French Overture instead (rapid-share / send-space)! Tovey gives an extraordinarily complex explanation of those dotted notes which have exercised members in another thread, saying that "the value of the dot varies in a way that cannot be well represented by modernising the notation." He further tells us that at many points - but by no means everywhere - "the tendency should be to sharpen the rhythmic jerk."

Who then among all our executants is likely in these circumstances to be authoritative? We do not know and had best offer a wide selection in this instance.

Hans whose virile rendition we present first is his being a battler for a German nationalist music and having ninety-four years of experience behind him probably the closest to the true Bach performance tradition. His interpretation is a striking one because he seems actually to stretch the bars! This sort of elastic rhythm is what makes the Viennese waltzes such as the Blue Danube so effective is not it.

Wanda having run a school in France should have known something about the French style, so here is what she makes of the work. In fact her solid rendition is the one we like best of all these.

The fascinating Samuel, whitewashed out of British histories of music by sinister functionaries such as Mr. Lebrecht, would probably given his background also be adept at the French style; his does in fact turn out to be a well-rounded interpretation, with a good grasp of form, but we do not know whether it displays any truly exceptional sensitivity; the piece is not the most suitable one for displays of that kind.

Rosalyn has a good reputation too, although we cannot tell whether it is deserved exactly: she plays the work very slowly and carefully so perhaps her timing of those dots is good. But she cannot resist inserting her own little twiddle on the final note.

We had not at first intended to do so, but let us now for good measure throw in Glenn. His dotted notes certainly differ from those of the rest, and about three quarters of the way through we hear him shouting in excitement even - we suppose Bach would have approved - but were there such creatures as Americans in his day?

We have not heard from Léon for some considerable time. How does he manage all these fine points we wonder. Is he still fumbling his way and out of his depth among the true masters?


I have no wish whatsoever to embarrass members any further with yet another Crackpot version of the D Major Fugue (Book 1), and it is only because Mr Grew has twisted my arm to do so so ruthlessly that I have little alternative to but offer...

Leon's performance.

Being an obvious beginner in the performance of Baroque music, it will be clear that the whole issue of dotted notes is one that has so far escaped his intelligence and understanding. Little wonder, then, that he simply plays everything as it literally presents itself in the score. He must have grown up as an organist because (like them) he "hears" what he sees written on the page rather than his performance of it. Why he remains unable to hear himself rushing away at bars 9-10 and again at bars 17-19 can only be explained by that assumption.

In the "Crackpot" performance, the bass C# on beat 3 of bar 14 hit me just as I was swallowing a sip of coffee, and I shall be sending Mr Grew the bill for dry-cleaning my trousers!

Wanda again charms us with her two-manual sewing machine (which, by then, must surely have been electric we assume). The interplay of her Loud and Not-So-Loud (almost in every phrase) reminds one of the warp and weft as it passes majestically from within the loom - and one can almost visualise her tossing the bobbin to and fro as she pulsates her way through this frankish exercise.

But she has one thing in common with Hans (even in addition to a liking for 16'-pitched strings) and that is her consistency in playing ALL the dotted figures THROUGHOUT as 7+1 (and that is, for me, just how they should be played).

But what can we say about Glenn?! Unlike Leon, he at least knows that a decision has to be made about the rhythm of the dotted notes. But because he cannot make his mind up whether the dots should be lengthened or not, he "plays safe" in a monumentally crackpot way by deciding to perform them with both rhythms alternately! Now who else would ever have thought of doing that - whichever ones are right or wrong, he is thereby sure that at least half of them must be correct (which is more than would have been should he have played them all the same way, but actually got them wrong).

Baz
« Last Edit: 15:18:23, 14-07-2008 by Baz » Logged
Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #456 on: 08:55:20, 15-07-2008 »

After yesterday's altogether rubbishy Fugue to-day it is the turn of something much more weighty: the Prelude in D minor from Book I of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier (rapid-share / send-space).

Many melodies contain elements of what we might call "virtual dialogue," wherein a tune first takes one direction and is answered by the taking of a second direction, which may be both related to and contrasted with the first. This reflects the Hegelian workings of the human mind does not it. In this case our anonymous crackpot has observed the implicitness in Bach's bass line and used two separate instruments in order to realise the dialogue and introduce it to the realm of explicitness or actuality.

As object of comparison here is the interpretation of Scott. Members will note that in contrast to the crackpot's rendition (wherein it is made very prominent) Scott's bass line is treated as secondary and suppressed throughout. And in the final two bars Scott makes a simply tremendous blunder when he all of a sudden changes to double speed!
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Baz
Guest
« Reply #457 on: 09:22:31, 15-07-2008 »

We recall having ourselves submitted a crackpot version of this Prelude some considerable time ago on this very thread. Regrettably, however, it will now be lost to posterity and cast into oblivion because a) the Sendspace link will have expired, and b) we have since had completely to change our computer hardware and all such created files were "washed away" in the process!

Baz
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Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #458 on: 10:04:04, 15-07-2008 »

. . . lost to posterity . . .

Fortunately not. With the help of a twenty-fifth century historical detector we have recovered Mr. Baziron's rendition from minute impressions left in the paint on our wall.

The triplets are treated in much the same way in both renditions, but if we may say so the bass line of Mr. Baziron puts us in mind of some kind of chicken, while that of the anonymous crackpot is far nobler and more Elgarian.

Nevertheless we urge the Member to produce more along the same lines. Here is a pointer to the original discussion.

So . . . how could Scott have got that rhythm so wrong? It is not the case of another Baroque convention is it?
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Baz
Guest
« Reply #459 on: 11:15:04, 15-07-2008 »

. . . lost to posterity . . .

Fortunately not. With the help of a twenty-fifth century historical detector we have recovered Mr. Baziron's rendition from minute impressions left in the paint on our wall.

The triplets are treated in much the same way in both renditions, but if we may say so the bass line of Mr. Baziron puts us in mind of some kind of chicken, while that of the anonymous crackpot is far nobler and more Elgarian.

Nevertheless we urge the Member to produce more along the same lines. Here is a pointer to the original discussion.

So . . . how could Scott have got that rhythm so wrong? It is not the case of another Baroque convention is it?


Well thank you Mr Grew - I had quite forgotten how truly crackpot it was!

Baz
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Baz
Guest
« Reply #460 on: 13:06:31, 15-07-2008 »


The triplets are treated in much the same way in both renditions, but if we may say so the bass line of Mr. Baziron puts us in mind of some kind of chicken, while that of the anonymous crackpot is far nobler and more Elgarian.


What connection, we wonder, is there between - on the one hand - Edwardian nobility, and - on the other - using a crow-bar to crack an egg-shell?

Baz
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Baz
Guest
« Reply #461 on: 20:14:02, 15-07-2008 »


...Fortunately not. With the help of a twenty-fifth century historical detector we have recovered Mr. Baziron's rendition from minute impressions left in the paint on our wall.


We cannot help wondering if - by chance - a twenty-sixth century detector might also be able to 'grab' (from the ether) our very own attempt at crackpotting the D Minor Fugue from Book 2? That was also washed away (for all its sins).

Baz
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Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #462 on: 10:17:11, 16-07-2008 »

Here it is; we suppose that the Member wishes to donate it to the British Library.

And as a footnote to yesterday's Prelude we wish to draw to Members' attention Hans's interpretation. He has the "right idea" and is so forceful that his harpsichord sounds like a grand organ does not it?
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Baz
Guest
« Reply #463 on: 10:46:28, 16-07-2008 »

Here it is; we suppose that the Member wishes to donate it to the British Library.

And as a footnote to yesterday's Prelude we wish to draw to Members' attention Hans's interpretation. He has the "right idea" and is so forceful that his harpsichord sounds like a grand organ does not it?


We are immensely gratified to learn that the Member thinks it worthwhile (despite its total crackpottery), and we shall perhaps give the matter some thought!

Hans certainly has everything twanging does not he? I cannot help wondering whether the 16' strings are a little "over the top" (rather than under the bottom) for a two-part Invention of this scale, but he does go for it in the right way.

Baz

P.S. Does the Member know of any twenty-seventh century detectors capable of reformatting the ether so as to retrieve from it the crackpot version we submitted previously of the D Minor Fugue (Book 2)? It would be a pity to donate the Prelude alone to the BL without accompanying it with the Fugue we feel.
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Sydney Grew
Guest
« Reply #464 on: 11:07:23, 16-07-2008 »

The three-part Fugue in D minor from the first of Bach's Books (here - rapid-share / send-space - in the usual non-compos-mentis interpretion) has a rather ungainly and unmelodious subject which is nonetheless very suitable for fuguistical treatment. That is to say, it begins with five assorted quavers, which are followed by a little motif built of four semi-quavers and a leap, and then a couple of crotchets with a trill thrown in. In the middle of all that we also find an ascending scale, three descending thirds, a turn, and a modulation to the dominant, all in the space of less than two bars. And then there is the counter-subject . . .

We mention this because Tovey believes he has caught Bach out with a wrong note! "The autographs are all against reading C# in the bass of bar forty," he tells us; "but it is required by the sense and the parallel with bar eighteen." He is so sure of himself here that he actually ventures to insert a sharp sign in square brackets. Well it is true that bars forty and forty-one look very like a transposition of bars eighteen and nineteen; on the other hand if we compare bar two (F-natural D C-sharp D) with bar forty (F-sharp D C-natural D) it may be thought that Bach after pulling the top note of the figure a semi-tone higher was compensating by pulling the bottom note a semi-tone lower. After all, we have seen that, like Schoenberg, Bach already felt free to use in his music any note of the chromatic scale.

Performances Members may wish to contrast here are first that of Hans, a virile German, next that of an Englishman of the present-day, and finally that of Gustav, a very fluent Dutchman.

Actually we share Mr. Baziron's admiration for Gustav, but in our case it is because of the authenticity of the singers in his renditions of the Cantatas. Gustav like Bach will have no truck with the female voice!
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