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Author Topic: religion is evil  (Read 9492 times)
Kittybriton
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Thank you for the music ...


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« Reply #60 on: 17:26:56, 08-07-2007 »

It is all a terrible divine punishment from the Flying Spaghetti MonsterCry

We must renounce our wicked ways and embrace His Noodliness before he finds it necessary to flood the world (with gravy).
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #61 on: 18:37:51, 08-07-2007 »

It is all a terrible divine punishment from the Flying Spaghetti MonsterCry

We must renounce our wicked ways and embrace His Noodliness before he finds it necessary to flood the world (with gravy).

And worship the  Most Knowledgeable and Never Wrong God Dawkins because all he says is true...

Not!

I'm an Agnostic and proud. Smiley
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We pass this way but once.  This is not a rehearsal!
Lord Byron
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« Reply #62 on: 19:19:17, 08-07-2007 »

I am an agnostic but have a soft spot for churchy girls Smiley
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Mary Chambers
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« Reply #63 on: 19:23:29, 08-07-2007 »

I'm an agnostic (verging on, but not quite, atheist), but one who loves church music and architecture.
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increpatio
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« Reply #64 on: 21:47:44, 08-07-2007 »

Yeah; what's to be done with all these attractive religious people?  They tear one so, don't they?
Speaking as an attractive religious person, I've never torn anyone. I'm always very gentle.

You must be an absolute master of tact then. 

What about attractive homeless people?  Don't they make you just want to cry?
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Chafing Dish
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« Reply #65 on: 22:06:38, 08-07-2007 »

This thread is dipped in the wax of scurrilousness and set alight by the flame of my ennui.
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martle
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« Reply #66 on: 22:29:21, 08-07-2007 »

This thread is dipped in the wax of scurrilousness and set alight by the flame of my ennui.

If tinners was around, I have little doubt he'd nominate that for quote of the r3ok week. As is his wont. Oh, I suppose I can, this being a mini-democracy! Shocked
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Green. Always green.
A
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« Reply #67 on: 22:53:22, 08-07-2007 »

I don't have any problems with people who have a faith, I just don't like it when they try to ram it down others throats (especially "Born Agains")


How I agree Jonathan. I have a 'faith' but one I keep private. I have deep beliefs BUT others ram their 'perfect , self righteous stuff' down my throat and it really really annoys me!!

It's like the missionary stuff, what right does anyone have to say that their beliefs are right.

Everyone has the right to a belief... keep it to yourself I say!!!!!

A
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #68 on: 23:00:58, 08-07-2007 »

Well I hope that I don't come across as a throat-rammer.
I don't quite believe in keeping things to myself though.
I've felt more and more that my faith is something I'm happy with, and that if I'm censoring myself from saying something when I'm offended or when I feel like i have something germane to say, I'm not being true to myself.
I suppose it's a bit like my sexuality in that respect.
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A
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« Reply #69 on: 23:08:25, 08-07-2007 »

I have to say that I think one's sexuality is private too.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #70 on: 23:20:41, 08-07-2007 »

I think that everyone has the right to keep their sexuality and their personal beliefs private.
I also think that everyone should have the right to tell people what their sexuality and personal beliefs are.
I think that nobody has a right to tell anyone what they should believe or what their sexuality should be.
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'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
increpatio
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« Reply #71 on: 01:25:54, 09-07-2007 »

I think that nobody has a right to tell anyone what they should believe or what their sexuality should be.

Indeed such demands are absurd when taken literally (not that nobody should have this right, but to demand other people believe something).  But, at the same time, everything should be open to debate, neh? (whether people wish to participate in any given debate is a separate issue, of course!)
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #72 on: 10:38:29, 09-07-2007 »

Arguably, science is a product of religion.

Quite so - an excellent point.

And may we add that what people very often forget about belief, is that it is belief only. Because they believe, for whatever reason, that X is true, they act as though X is a known fact. But knowledge and belief are entirely different; they are worlds apart.

We would wish all self-styled "believers" then to place more emphasis on the simple fact that it is mere belief with which they are concerned, and most definitely not something known. The various Creeds should all include a new line to the effect that "of course all this is entirely unknown to us."

We do not know whether non-Christian religions such as Hindooism Islamism Zoroastrianism and the countless paganisms do in fact describe themselves as beliefs only. What can other Members tell us about this question? Do those non-Christians admit as the Christians do to not knowing?

It is our view that what is important is knowledge, whereas belief is a way of passing time while waiting for knowledge to come to us (whether in this world or in a next). Belief gives men no authority for action in the way that knowledge does. If Jesus Christ were to turn up at Jack Straw's Castle one day, and it could be shown with certainty that it was really He, all mere beliefs (Hindooism, Islamism, etc. etc. - again, assuming that they are beliefs) would then evaporate in an instant would they not?

Having said that, we should note the existence of the rather rare "argument from enthusiasm," where the thinker simply exclaims "How could it be otherwise!" Surprisingly it is found in many modern works of mathematics and even physics, which use symmetry as a prop for the "knowledge" they impart. The method is well described in Vincent McCarthy's book "Quest for a Philosophical Jesus," where he says "The thinker thinks a thought and his very enthusiasm seems to constitute sufficient - even 'empirical' - proof." Indeed Schelling, in the introduction to his 1797 "Outlines of a Philosophy of Nature," observes that, in contrast to dogmatism, there is in his genetic philosophy no longer a separation between experience and speculation.

All that forms a complicating factor, as of course do also the nature-spirits of the pagan polytheists, perhaps primitive and perhaps not. It may well be the case that certain myths are known with more true certainty than our modern "forces" "dimensions" and "times." And all that is to say nothing of the Greeks, nor for instance of Petronius's "Fear made the Gods" - fear, that is, precisely of the un-known.
« Last Edit: 05:42:16, 10-07-2007 by Sydney Grew » Logged
eruanto
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« Reply #73 on: 11:58:19, 09-07-2007 »

We do not in fact know whether non-Christian religions such as Hindooism Islamism Zoroastrianism and the countless paganisms do in fact describe themselves as beliefs only. What can other Members tell us about this question? Do those non-Christians admit as the Christians do to not knowing?

I would certainly admit to "not knowing". None of us can have the definitive answer to the mysteries of existence, whether we choose to admit it or not. Once this fact is realised and embraced, then society would undoubtedly become much more of a tolerant place. Many religions/beliefs have become so entrenched that those who follow them ignore the beliefs of others, leading to the emergence of stereotypes (and therefore many of the problems we face in today's world).

I only recently (a few weeks ago) disclosed my belief* and within days I was being asked whether I was practising any "dark arts" or  considering bringing any curses down on the house! This was from one who, as far as I can see, has no leanings towards religion at all. When asked to eradicate their misconceptions (basically), they utterly refused. So I await with some trepidation what will happen when I meet one who can't see the wood for the trees.



*yes, I would describe it as a belief - it has a great deal more freedom to it. In my case there is no equivalent of the Bible. There is no need (or for that matter a particular place) to gather weekly. There is no need even to meet others at all, if so desired. Each follower can follow his or her own individual path, with all the twists and turns that, like any path, it involves.
« Last Edit: 12:20:24, 09-07-2007 by eruanto » Logged
increpatio
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« Reply #74 on: 12:11:33, 09-07-2007 »

Arguably, science is a product of religion.

Quite so - an excellent point.

Maybe it would be better to say that science developed in a certain religious climate, so as to avoid making it seem reliant.  Wink

Quote
Having said that, we should note the existence of the rather rare "argument from enthusiasm," where the thinker simply exclaims "How could it be otherwise!" Surprisingly it is found in many modern works of mathematics and even physics, which use symmetry as a prop for the "knowledge" they impart.

??  So far as I know, and I do know something, the concept of "symmetry", insofar as it is useful in mathematics, does *not* constitute in any sense a mere prop - in practice the usages are entirely mathematical; though there are some who utter various catchphrases, espouse paradigms, support the odd yoga, but we are all very well aware that such things do not constitute real mathematics (however useful/beautiful such formulations might be).
« Last Edit: 12:15:40, 09-07-2007 by increpatio » Logged

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