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Author Topic: Prom 39: Gotterdammerung, Sunday Aug. 12th  (Read 2183 times)
time_is_now
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« Reply #60 on: 18:56:50, 13-08-2007 »

Is it suddenly hot summer down there, martle? You've suddenly gone brown instead of green...
What is all this about? He still looks perfectly green to me, if a little translucent for my absolute comfort ...
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
Ron Dough
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« Reply #61 on: 19:07:38, 13-08-2007 »

For a short while he had a brown DPS courier label, t_i_n....
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Bert Coules
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« Reply #62 on: 19:55:57, 13-08-2007 »

I think I noticed a curious kind of audience crossover with Lord of the Rings nuts - who must have heard somewhere along the way that the two things aren't altogether, er, disimilar...

The other day I was wearing my NY Met Ring t-shirt (yes, it's sad, I know) while out shopping and an assistant in Sainsbury's, eyes alight, asked, "Ooh, is that The Lord of the Rings?"  I explained that it was something broadly similar but for the theatre, keeping away from the turn-off word 'opera', and she said excitedly, "Sounds great!  Is there a book of it?"

Which took me aback slightly.  With a queue building up behind me and no time to get into CDs and DVDs, I had to say "no, sorry"...

A lost convert, there!

Bert

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Notoriously Bombastic
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« Reply #63 on: 21:03:51, 13-08-2007 »

That was both big and good.  For somebody who doesn't know Wagner, I gather I picked a good introduction!

I was particularly taken by the tone of the bass trumpet.  It's all too easy to make them sound like a duck that has swallowed a firework.

NB
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martle
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« Reply #64 on: 22:13:35, 13-08-2007 »

Is it suddenly hot summer down there, martle? You've suddenly gone brown instead of green...
What is all this about? He still looks perfectly green to me, if a little translucent for my absolute comfort ...

tinsky, I am back in full verdant glow, I hope. Weird how that can happen to your avatar when you're away for a bit...(I had to reload it!)  Grin
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Green. Always green.
time_is_now
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« Reply #65 on: 22:16:28, 13-08-2007 »

'S never happened to me yet, martle. I'm still as lovely and chocolatey as ever. Wink
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
martle
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« Reply #66 on: 22:18:08, 13-08-2007 »

Yes, tinners. MILES better than mine anyway.  Cheesy
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Green. Always green.
eruanto
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« Reply #67 on: 00:03:46, 14-08-2007 »

Well, after three 1/2 hours queuing

pah! I got there at 6:20am!  Grin I was still second Cheesy

I don't think I shall ever recover from the mental effects of the performance. The physical challenges of standing were eradicated by the sheer psychologically-enveloping power of the music (and I was jolly glad they were!).

The staging tiddled on the edge of ridiculous just at the end: Hagen got up from his seat at the side, walked to the furthest music stand, sang "Zurück vom Ring", and then walked straight back again! But I thought the "illuminations" on the organ and above the choir really fitted in well - the gradual deepening of the red throughout the Immolation scene being a highlight.

As every first live complete Wagner opera should be, the effect is still, even now, indescribable. There is no more I can say. My voice was croaky this morning though; too many cheers!

Wagner/Tolkien answer follows...
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eruanto
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« Reply #68 on: 00:04:05, 14-08-2007 »

Incidentally, I don't know whether others who were there will agree (eruanto?), but I think I noticed a curious kind of audience crossover with Lord of the Rings nuts - who must have heard somewhere along the way that the two things aren't altogether, er, disimilar...

I sure hope they weren't hoping for hobbits or Gollum... Angry to say nothing of Orlando "bloomin' bloons" Bloom



In Tolkien's biography (by Humphrey Carpenter) there appear the following two quotes:

"[Tolkien ...] recounted [to his group of friends the TCBS] horrific episodes from the Norse Völsungasaga, with a passing jibe at Wagner whose interpretation of the myths he held in contempt."

On reading The Lord of the Rings Rayner Unwin "suggested that it would have to be divided into sections, commenting that in this respect Frodo's ring resembled that of the Nibelungs. [...] The comparison of his ring with the Nibelungenlied and Wagner always annoyed Tolkien; he once said: 'Both rings were round, and there the resemblance ceased'."



I very much suspect that these "nuts" have come to Tolkien through the films alone. By necessity these enterprises cut out much of what sets The Book apart from being just another good/bad-struggle plot.

My own view is that the Wagner and Tolkien are very different things. In the Wagner, the ring is lusted for by those who would use it for evil, selfish purposes: even Wotan, who would presumably use the ring to enhance his own power, and Hagen would use it ultimately to control the world (once he'd bumped off Alberich, maybe?). In Tolkien, the One Ring frequently exerts its power over those who are supposed to be on the "good side", and its influence is such that, whereas they may think that they are acting in their best interests, by claiming the Ring and using it they would cause more detriment than gain. In the end, they would turn into a "Lord of the Ring" themselves, and the process would begin again.

In the preview this appears as a terribly long answer, but the depth of the topic (and there Wagner and Tolkien do share something) is such that it deserves it, I think. I have attempted not to become too involved in the Tolkien side of things, because it is challenging to read about a topic where one may not have the most thorough knowledge...
« Last Edit: 10:58:36, 14-08-2007 by eruanto » Logged
eruanto
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« Reply #69 on: 22:45:13, 14-08-2007 »

Way to kill a thread, eru.

Did anyone else notice that Tomlinson lost his way at one point in act 1?

Nun redet: wie dünkt euch Hagens Rat?

The "Nun redet" was replaced by a sort of rather drunken er-er-er, sung to the right notes, but it sounded very strange. He giggled a bit and just managed to quell it soon enough to carry on.
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martle
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« Reply #70 on: 22:54:57, 14-08-2007 »

Way to kill a thread, eru.


Nonsense. Threads have a habit of bouncing back sometimes. Anyway, I found all that very interesting, eru, thanks.

I had another Wagner nut story from Sunday. There was a guy of about 60, dressed in black, leather trousers, who at the start of each Act positioned his miniature teddy bear leaning up against a water bottle, facing the stage. I was right by him.  Shocked

And, just today, I have booked for the entire Ring ROH preview performance set in late September. The cost? £25 all in. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
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Green. Always green.
eruanto
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« Reply #71 on: 23:00:59, 14-08-2007 »

And, just today, I have booked for the entire Ring ROH preview performance set in late September. The cost? £25 all in. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Could I ask how you acquired the tickets? I heard about this preview business last night and was very interested, given that it could mean that I could avoid sleeping out overnight to acquire a day-ticket during the cycles.

« Last Edit: 23:23:16, 14-08-2007 by eruanto » Logged
martle
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« Reply #72 on: 23:27:40, 14-08-2007 »

Eru, I got emailed today as a 'previous booker of Wagner tickets at ROH'. Try them. They'll all be gone before you can say 'Hagen der Grimme'.  Shocked
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Green. Always green.
eruanto
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« Reply #73 on: 23:39:18, 14-08-2007 »

Well, I've dropped them a quick e-mail, though quite what good it'll do at this time of night is a mystery.

please be some left please be some left please be some left
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Tony Watson
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« Reply #74 on: 23:39:37, 14-08-2007 »

Eruanto, do you have the Lin Carter book: Tolkien - A Look Behind the Lord of the Rings? There's a chapter devoted to Tolkien's sources and a comaparison between Wagner's Siegfried and Tolkien's tale (chapter 14, page 138 especially). Unfortunately, from a very quick rereading, Tolkien's views on Wagner are not mentioned, which is a pity as they sound very interesting.
« Last Edit: 23:41:29, 14-08-2007 by Tony Watson » Logged
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