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Ian Pace
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« Reply #45 on: 16:25:00, 17-09-2007 » |
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Is Tenney less played in 'Euro-land' than Babbitt?
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Evan Johnson
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« Reply #46 on: 16:42:39, 17-09-2007 » |
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KG replies (re James Saunders and Chris Fox): Can't forget about 'em: didn't know about 'em.
Erm, yes, my eyebrows already hit the ceiling when I read that. I mean, I'm not saying everyone oughtta've heard of Chris Fox but, well, you know, you would've thought Kyle Gann might have come across him somewhere or other. Or am I totally naive about the reputation of Englishmen abroad? Yes. I don't want to guess what percentage of Americans involved in contemporary music have heard of Chris Fox, but I will: I don't know, 5%? Maybe? Or is that too generous? But then... have you heard of, I don't know, Jennifer Higdon? Some reputations don't travel. |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #47 on: 16:43:50, 17-09-2007 » |
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Is Tenney less played in 'Euro-land' than Babbitt?
I don't know actually. I wondered that myself. I've heard a small amount of Babbitt live (not really enough to count as a scientific sample), and no Tenney that I can recall, even though I'd be equally inclined (extraneous factors such as date/time/location notwithstanding) to attend a performance of either composer. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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time_is_now
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« Reply #48 on: 16:44:21, 17-09-2007 » |
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But then... have you heard of, I don't know, Jennifer Higdon? Yes. Sorry. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #49 on: 16:44:36, 17-09-2007 » |
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But it was you who pointed-out that the final act is just Gandhi wandering around aimlessly - and I am saying that the problem stems from a poorly crafted libretto, no matter where it was sourced or in what language. "Music-Theatre" isn't an either/or choice between the two  I'm going to have a look at the score and libretto to work out just what is specified before I say anything else on this subject I think. I think that last half of the last act could have been incredibly powerful without revising the libretto (but it did go on a bit). I'd like to see the whole idea of 'Music-Theatre' explored and experimented with, much more than it seems to be right now. I seem to only ever see narrative on-stage activity or no on-stage activity. Is this the best that we can do? I think the problem with Satyagraha is that Glass and his librettist couldn't decide whether it was an "opera" in the traditional sense or not. Oh, and the orchestration. And the turgid monotony of the music. I still don't think that Glass is trying to write an "opera", but I completely agree that the librettist is producing something more akin to the libretto of Einstein. I didn't notice the orchestration I have to say... Is there anything in particular about it that you dislike, or does it just not work? I didn't find it monotonous either. But as I said, the last act went on a bit. You're right that the synthesizer sounds are a bit hokey, but I'd suggest that the bigger problem is that the piece sort of just sucks.
 PS I think you would be surprised what music-theatre pieces I like (and have directed, and commissioned)  I probably would. Hope you didn't take my slightly narked tone amiss. It Was Late And I Was Tired. Maybe I should send you the sketches for my opera. (though given your comments about the Glass libretto, I just can't see any hope for mine!) Is Tenney less played in 'Euro-land' than Babbitt?
Ahem. We could also talk about James Tenney at this juncture at the risk of taking things off topic... Well more off topic.
Sorry - my fault  Another thread perhaps? |
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'is this all we can do?' anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965) http://www.myspace.com/itensemble |
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dotcommunist
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« Reply #50 on: 16:52:05, 17-09-2007 » |
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Is Tenney less played in 'Euro-land' than Babbitt?
Tenney is performed quite often in my neck of the woods, I've only witnessed one Babbit performance (an old mixed quartet -flute, clarinet, vioin, cello, - written... in the 50's??, sorry can't remember) incomparison to Tenney who's had performances in Donaueschingen, Stuttgart (Eclat festival), Freiburg (Recherche/Chronophonie) & ZKM (Recherche). Also been more radio broadcasts of Tenney (portraited on Deutschland Radio Berlin), than Babbit (for whom I can't remember a single broadcast...). Often see programming of piece with the title that goes something like... "Not Having written Anything for Percussion..." so the answer is a definite yes  |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #51 on: 16:52:41, 17-09-2007 » |
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I've heard a small amount of Babbitt live (not really enough to count as a scientific sample), and no Tenney that I can recall, even though I'd be equally inclined (extraneous factors such as date/time/location notwithstanding) to attend a performance of either composer.
I've never heard any Babbitt played live. Jim Tenney, though, was much in evidence in the Darmstadt courses in the 1980s, had a DAAD residency in Berlin (in an apartment I later occupied!) and has been recorded by fairly high-profile European CD labels like Hat ART and col legno, and I can report he is certainly a name to conjure with in Germany. He also wrote a lot more music than Babbitt, didn't he? |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #52 on: 16:57:52, 17-09-2007 » |
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I can report he is certainly a name to conjure with in Germany. Yes, I had gathered that, and was slightly ignoring Germany in the hope that someone would come along to say whether he has any significant profile elsewhere in Europe (although I might start answering my own question by saying that he certainly seems to be a name in most even slightly outside-the-mainstream British compositional circles, from Huddersfield to the Cutting Edge). I'd also forgotten what a wide range of performers are involved in the hatArt series of Tenney discs (4 in total, I think). ]He also wrote a lot more music than Babbitt, didn't he? Not that I'm aware of, but you may be right. Babbitt wrote (and continues to write) quite a fair bit, though, so if that's what you meant I don't think you're right. |
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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aaron cassidy
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« Reply #53 on: 17:02:05, 17-09-2007 » |
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KG replies (re James Saunders and Chris Fox): Can't forget about 'em: didn't know about 'em.
Erm, yes, my eyebrows already hit the ceiling when I read that. I mean, I'm not saying everyone oughtta've heard of Chris Fox but, well, you know, you would've thought Kyle Gann might have come across him somewhere or other. Or am I totally naive about the reputation of Englishmen abroad? Yes. I don't want to guess what percentage of Americans involved in contemporary music have heard of Chris Fox, but I will: I don't know, 5%? Maybe? Or is that too generous? But then... have you heard of, I don't know, Jennifer Higdon? Some reputations don't travel. I think Ev's about right in his 5% estimate, though even that might be a bit generous. (This is a new music community after all where even someone like Lachenmann is a bit obscure. Ugh.) Incidentally, I'm sure Chris would be thrilled to be compared w/ Jennifer Higdon.  |
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dotcommunist
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« Reply #54 on: 17:04:34, 17-09-2007 » |
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Found the program of the piece I heard earlier this March (soloists of the Ensemble Modern Academy) : Composition for Four Instruments (1947/48) which I remembered from previous records whilst still a student at the Birmingham Con. Despite being the ONLY ever live performance I've ever witnessed of Babb's music, was very pleasantly surprised at how much one could hear brought out in it. The prejudice against this music is to describe it as well-behaved academicism, & I think the Ensemble Modern wanted to prove a point somewhat by breathing some much needed fire into their students' understanding of a very grey & boring looking score. maybe this music is good after all  . As for Tenney having written more than Babb, I thought it was the other way round & that there is tons of Babbworks just waiting for their Euro-Land premieres  can't wait ! |
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« Last Edit: 17:07:11, 17-09-2007 by dotcommunist »
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richard barrett
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« Reply #55 on: 17:07:36, 17-09-2007 » |
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He also wrote a lot more music than Babbitt, didn't he? Babbitt wrote (and continues to write) quite a fair bit Oh dear. I mean "oh dear, how ignorant of me not to be aware of that", not "oh dear, there must be far more of that dry-as-sawdust stuff than I was aware of". Of course. |
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time_is_now
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« Reply #56 on: 17:09:47, 17-09-2007 » |
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"To all the girl singers I've ever known."
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The city is a process which always veers away from the form envisaged and desired, ... whose revenge upon its architects and planners undoes every dream of mastery. It is [also] one of the sites where Dasein is assigned the impossible task of putting right what can never be put right. - Rob Lapsley
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #57 on: 17:12:08, 17-09-2007 » |
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I think Ev's about right in his 5% estimate, though even that might be a bit generous. (This is a new music community after all where even someone like Lachenmann is a bit obscure. Ugh.) Well, Lachenmann was still relatively obscure in the UK until the last 7-8 years. And N.A. Huber and Spahlinger are practically unknown here (I imagine even less so in the US). Let alone Rolf Riehm, Josef Anton Riedl, Hans-Joachim Hespos, Volker Heyn, Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf, and numerous others. Incidentally, I'm sure Chris would be thrilled to be compared w/ Jennifer Higdon. Might it make sense to compare his reputation with Johannes Fritsch or Erhard Grosskopf, say, though they are both a bit older (but, I would hazard a guess, even less well known in the US that Chris)? |
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« Last Edit: 17:20:32, 17-09-2007 by Ian Pace »
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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richard barrett
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« Reply #58 on: 17:21:38, 17-09-2007 » |
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And the turgid monotony of the music. I didn't notice the orchestration I have to say... Is there anything in particular about it that you dislike, or does it just not work? Oh yes, the topic. Perhaps you didn't notice the orchestration because there really isn't any...? I mean the orchestral sound is grey and opaque (even though on the recording an attempt is made to give it an extra sheen by adding synths in unison with the acoustic instruments) where Glass's ensemble generally sounds bright and transparent, which indicates to me that he's out of his depth with a "proper" orchestra (though Akhnaten is a slight improvement in this regard). Then there's the solo vocal lines, which to my ears meander aimlessly without making any distinction between characters, situations or what's being expressed in the text. And the musical materials themselves seem to me tired, as if he's recycled them one time too many. And so on: it just doesn't really do any of the things I listen to music for, let alone music-theatre. |
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dotcommunist
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« Reply #59 on: 17:29:44, 17-09-2007 » |
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Incidentally, I'm sure Chris would be thrilled to be compared w/ Jennifer Higdon. Might it make sense to compare his reputation with Johannes Fritsch or Erhard Grosskopf, say, though they are both a bit older (but, I would hazard a guess, even less well known in the US that Chris)? Chris Fox, comparable to Jo Fritsch? a bit harsh that, - I'd rather consider comparing him to Walter Zimmerman, although WZ is certainly more politically concerned, I think. Phil Glass and orchestration are two regions of existence that simply weren't separated at birth, consider his complete balls-up at orchestrating David Bowie's "Low" or the Aphex Twin medleys: a disgrace to all & sundry. |
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