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Baz
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« Reply #60 on: 22:35:15, 25-11-2007 » |
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And what, pray, Baz, was so "creative" about regurgitating your published work on Bach's temperament here, under a briefly adopted new preudonym, as if that work was new? No, grumpy, insufficiently noticed, old man you do seem to be presenting yourself as here, to me.
I have never EVER published anything on Bach's temperament! The materials I submitted recently to this forum (under another name) were entirely newly-created, and appeared here for the first time. That was, I thought, one example of being creative. I think you are beginning to adopt a manner of expression that is in danger of becoming inexplicably offensive. Baz |
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martle
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« Reply #61 on: 22:39:16, 25-11-2007 » |
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Maybe Matthew doesn't want to reveal too much about how he's going to use the material his volunteers give him. Maybe he thinks that if they know too much about how the end result will be developed, that might affect how they behave in the early stages. There may be very good creative reasons why he's not telling more about the project. Just because something is participatory, that doesn't make it democratic. If you don't want to participate, you don't have to. But there will be people who will be intrigued, and willing to trust the composer/creator/project leader/insert desired word. That doesn't necessarily mean they're being "had."
It's easy to criticise someone's description of what they're going to do before seeing the end result.
"I'm going to paint a distended anamorphic skull at the bottom of that highly realistic painting."
"i'm going to do away with capital letters and punctuation"
"I'm going to dribble paint randomly."
"I'm going to write a menuet based on throwing dice."
"I'm going to write a play where absolutely nothing happens."
"I'm going to write a really long poem about how I'm going to become a poet some day."
(Hmm, could this be a new quiz?)
Strina, thankyou. That represents my own view far better than I've been able to express it so far!  |
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Green. Always green.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #62 on: 22:40:50, 25-11-2007 » |
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People are of course at perfect liberty to find the methods by which the creator intends to proceed bizarre: nevertheless, however outlandish the premise may seem at this point, judgement should properly be suspended until there is a product to discuss. To do otherwise would surely be, in the purest sense of the word, prejudice.
That is too simplistic Ron! We have no "product" to discuss, but merely an idea. Nobody here is questioning a "product" before it has been produced (that would be prejudice indeed). Some of us are merely questioning the idea, and the proposal for carrying it forward (without any further idea of the outcome). Not to question this kind of thing can result in serious errors of judgement. Baz I appreciate that, Baz: as I've already said, the basic premise may well appear bizarre, but within the bounds of performance art/happenings that's pretty much par for the course. The worlds of New Art have long had their weirder fringes (sharks, calves, unmade beds, tents etc.) but regardless of whether you or I wish to be involved, if anyone can find a way in, satisfy a public and subsist on the proceeds, then good luck to them. (Strina, you reached Wolfie's dice throwing constructions ahead of me: I'm sure there must have been a good deal of head-shaking over that at the time!) |
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A
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« Reply #63 on: 22:44:26, 25-11-2007 » |
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Just because Baz's or A's musical perspective is somewhat limited, does not mean that the wider perspective enjoyed by others has no validity I object to this . You happily say that others are wonderful because they completely demolish the music that is loved by many and make a HORRIBLE noise instead. You say my perspective is limited.... what the h*** do you know about me.  I have a right to make comments without being accused of being grumpy and having my musical breadth of interest questioned. What do YOU know about my interest in music, Bryn ,apart from my not liking noise? I could give you an example of modern stuff I have heard that was in my oipinion horrible.. I have been to such events. I have also said ... this evening privately, that if ever it is suggested that I should go to another of these I will sit in a local coffe house and meet up afterwards , thank you very much. A |
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Well, there you are.
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perfect wagnerite
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« Reply #64 on: 22:48:26, 25-11-2007 » |
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You happily say that others are wonderful because they completely demolish the music that is loved by many and make a HORRIBLE noise instead.
In precisely what way do events like Matthew's "demolish the music that is loved by many"? |
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At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
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martle
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« Reply #65 on: 22:50:05, 25-11-2007 » |
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You happily say that others are wonderful because they completely demolish the music that is loved by many and make a HORRIBLE noise instead.
In precisely what way do events like Matthew's "demolish the music that is loved by many"? Or where has this been the case on these boards, ever? (Apart, perhaps by S. Grew?) |
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« Last Edit: 22:51:36, 25-11-2007 by martle »
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Green. Always green.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #66 on: 22:53:45, 25-11-2007 » |
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Bryn, Baz, A:
Whilst we all appreciate the passion of your contribution to the thread, there's some tangential animosity creeping in here which has lead to some statements which it seems can't be substantiated regarding another subject altogether which won't help us proceed at all here. You are an opposite sides of the field here, it's true, but I've seen you all stay calm when beset by long-standing adversaries who can be far more galling, and hope that you'll be able to further our discussion without rancour.
Thank you,
Ron
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John W
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« Reply #67 on: 22:56:09, 25-11-2007 » |
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Ron, This confirms we went to different moderator schools  |
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Baz
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« Reply #68 on: 23:07:42, 25-11-2007 » |
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Bryn, Baz, A:
Whilst we all appreciate the passion of your contribution to the thread, there's some tangential animosity creeping in here which has lead to some statements which it seems can't be substantiated regarding another subject altogether which won't help us proceed at all here. You are an opposite sides of the field here, it's true, but I've seen you all stay calm when beset by long-standing adversaries who can be far more galling, and hope that you'll be able to further our discussion without rancour.
Thank you,
Ron
That's true - but I don't think you will discover any animosity in any of my postings (even though I may have responded as politely as possible to animosities - and indeed offensive insults - in the postings of others). My postings have been serious, enquiring and in no way dismissive (contrary to the folklore that seems to have been building up here). Being labelled as one of "our grumpy duo", or (by the same person) accused of plagiarizing previously-published work that has never been published, and (yet by the same person) being informed that I am (to him) a "grumpy, insufficiently noticed, old man" may not in themselves be sufficiently serious to warrant a formal complaint, but they certainly leave an extremely nasty taste in the mouth. If this type of personal (but legitimately self-opinionated) abuse continues, it will damage more than this thread. Baz |
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Bryn
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« Reply #69 on: 23:11:14, 25-11-2007 » |
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Thank you Ron. Having been alerted to the 4 new messages which appeared while I was composing a reply to Baz and A, and in particular reading your comment, I will file that reply away (for the time being at least). I will simply say that the exclusion of 'noise' from one's musical perspective is indeed something I view as decidedly limiting, by definition. As to the issue of the temperament associated with Bach's 48, such views as appeared here under a streetwise authorship, have, as I understand it, previously been put forward by an academic at a south east London higher education facility who and which, since an earlier mention of them by A N Other was quite reasonably removed by the moderators, shall remain nameless.
[Hmm, having just seen a further comment, I would just ask, how does one plagiarise one's own work?]
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« Last Edit: 23:15:50, 25-11-2007 by Bryn »
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Baz
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« Reply #70 on: 23:25:34, 25-11-2007 » |
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...As to the issue of the temperament associated with Bach's 48, such views as appeared here under a streetwise authorship, have, as I understand it, previously been put forward by an academic at a south east London higher education facility who and which, since an earlier mention of them by A N Other was quite reasonably removed by the moderators, shall remain nameless.
[Hmm, having just seen a further comment, I would just ask, how does one plagiarise one's own work?]
Your understanding (if it dignifies the word) is completely erroneous. The said "academic at a south east London higher education facility" (who is extremely well known to me) has never published ANYTHING concerning Bach's temperament. If he had, you would have read it (which you haven't). He has, in point of fact, published a number of items concerning Syntonic Tuning - especially with regard to the music of Willaert. But the "Bach" piece was completely inspired by (and in answer to) interesting postings on this very MB. Indeed, it was Bryn who expressed impatience with my slow response, ignoring the fact that it took me the best part of a week to produce all the statistical data needed for the posting concerned! I really do think, Ron, that some judgement should be made about the way certain of our colleagues choose to frame their postings. Baz |
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« Last Edit: 23:30:27, 25-11-2007 by Baz »
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #71 on: 23:30:15, 25-11-2007 » |
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Would anyone like to do the MNISTRY OF SILLY WALKS sketch now instead? I think we've done the "Is This The Right Room For An Argument?" one now  |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Baz
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« Reply #72 on: 23:31:53, 25-11-2007 » |
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Would anyone like to do the MNISTRY OF SILLY WALKS sketch now instead? I think we've done the "Is This The Right Room For An Argument?" one now Oh I give up! Sod the lot of you. Bye! |
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martle
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« Reply #73 on: 23:35:39, 25-11-2007 » |
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I really do think, Ron, that some judgement should be made about the way certain of our colleagues choose to frame their postings.
Indeed, including imputations of 'b*lloc*s' (not on Baz's part, I hasten to add) and chicanery towards young first-time posters who might not be expected to know the finer points of MB etiquette, and are obviously merely trying to drum up some necessary support for a composition project. |
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Green. Always green.
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Morticia
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« Reply #74 on: 23:40:59, 25-11-2007 » |
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As Ron said, there does appear to be some "tangential animosity creeping in here", unfortunately. Perhaps we might wait for a response from Matthew re. the issues that have been raised since his initial posting? He would appear to welcome feedback and, let us not forget, this is supposed to be a Welcome thread. No fisticuffs please,
chaps!
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