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Don Basilio
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« Reply #75 on: 21:00:14, 02-01-2008 » |
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Tony -
The McCulloch Reformation is excellent, and extremely readable. Thank you for your comments on Messiah. I might even get the Naxos if I ever come across it.
It is my gripe that it is often thought the protestantism is default Christianity. It is not necessarily.
And there's beauty in the bellow of the blast, to my mind.
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« Last Edit: 21:04:44, 02-01-2008 by Don Basilio »
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #76 on: 22:43:40, 02-01-2008 » |
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there was something at ENO recently too which is escaping me at the moment. They did a St John Passion a few years back, complete with Lamb, but there may have been something more recent which is escaping me too. There have also been a few staged Handel oratorios as well in various places which, combined with various concert performances of Handel operas, has left me completely confused about which are actually meant to be which... I think the most revelatory staged Handel oratorio was Theodora at Glyndebourne. It raised a work that was until recent times thought unworthy of performance by the musical establishment to the stature of one of the great all time pieces of music, which it is. Another example where Handel towers over the best of Bach's creations. |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #77 on: 22:47:44, 02-01-2008 » |
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Certainly in agreement over that Theodora although it would be very unfair indeed to neglect to mention Peter Sellars' part in the success of that particular performance.
And also in agreement in that there's certainly something Handel did better than Bach. Fortunately there are enough examples going in the other direction that I'm happy to call the overall contest a draw.
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #78 on: 23:18:18, 02-01-2008 » |
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Certainly in agreement over that Theodora although it would be very unfair indeed to neglect to mention Peter Sellars' part in the success of that particular performance.
And also in agreement in that there's certainly something Handel did better than Bach. Fortunately there are enough examples going in the other direction that I'm happy to call the overall contest a draw.
I wouldn't call it a draw, I'd say Handel wins easily. Bach is the most overrated composer to my mind, I am absolutely astonished how this cult of Bach developed. I think he produced and awful lot of average material. If you compare their concertos and orchestral suites Handel makes a mockery of Bach's efforts. Handel's treatment of the voice in general is vastly superior to Bach's often awkward sounding creations. Even respected works like the Art of Fugue sound to me more like mathematical exercises than real music, so impersonal and detached do they sound. This is not Art the way I look at it! |
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« Last Edit: 23:24:56, 02-01-2008 by Rod Corkin »
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #79 on: 23:22:02, 02-01-2008 » |
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Did you ever meet a chap called mumblesford? I think you'd get on really well...  |
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #80 on: 23:26:17, 02-01-2008 » |
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Did you ever meet a chap called mumblesford? I think you'd get on really well... No idea who this guy it, but it was wise you saw no reason to contradict me on this matter. |
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« Last Edit: 23:32:06, 02-01-2008 by Rod Corkin »
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C Dish
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« Reply #81 on: 23:27:31, 02-01-2008 » |
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But this is the second time Mumblesford is mentioned. I have never met this individual either.
I love Bach, think he's brilliant, don't know what Roddie is on about, but it looks like this won't be a very stimulating debate.
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inert fig here
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #82 on: 23:31:19, 02-01-2008 » |
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No idea who this guy it, but it was wise you saw fit not to contradict me on this matter.
Does anyone remember the Monty Python sketch in which philosophers slug it out int the boxing ring to determine the value and ranking of their work? |
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« Last Edit: 23:33:07, 02-01-2008 by Reiner Torheit »
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #83 on: 23:35:36, 02-01-2008 » |
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But this is the second time Mumblesford is mentioned. I have never met this individual either.
I love Bach, think he's brilliant, don't know what Roddie is on about, but it looks like this won't be a very stimulating debate.
I won't pursue it further don't worry, I have a thread on this very subject at my own site, enhanced with numerous musical examples to listen to. |
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #84 on: 23:37:09, 02-01-2008 » |
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No idea who this guy it, but it was wise you saw fit not to contradict me on this matter.
Does anyone remember the Monty Python sketch in which philosophers slug it out int the boxing ring to determine the value and ranking of their work? If I'd been talking about Telemann you wouldn't have given a damn...  |
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C Dish
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« Reply #85 on: 23:37:44, 02-01-2008 » |
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Does anyone remember the Monty Python sketch in which philosophers slug it out int the boxing ring to determine the value and ranking of their work?
There's a cracking story by Irvine Welsh along the same lines in his collection called Acid House (or similar) -- fantastic little raskazz |
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inert fig here
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Rod Corkin
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« Reply #86 on: 23:48:15, 02-01-2008 » |
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Does anyone remember the Monty Python sketch in which philosophers slug it out int the boxing ring to determine the value and ranking of their work?
There's a cracking story by Irvine Welsh along the same lines in his collection called Acid House (or similar) -- fantastic little raskazz Of course I recall Beethoven ranked Handel the greatest, and stated this on numerous occasions. But Beethoven would get the Big Yawn here... There, I'm definitely finished now! |
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John W
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« Reply #87 on: 23:49:30, 02-01-2008 » |
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Only one person has had the big yawn here |
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C Dish
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« Reply #88 on: 23:51:50, 02-01-2008 » |
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Only one person has had the big yawn here Tis better to have the big yawn than the great be-yawned. A coat for the dish. |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #89 on: 23:52:33, 02-01-2008 » |
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No idea who this guy it, but it was wise you saw no reason to contradict me on this matter. Wasn't much point contradicting mumblesford either...  Actually there's some food for productive consideration in Bach's and Handel's different circumstances... Bach writing for more humble forces, Handel being feted by royals and big opera houses, Bach able to pursue his own experiments to some extent and coming up with stuff that as pure invention is really quite stunning, Handel's strengths moving more in the direction of large-scale works for large forces but finding subtleties in more natural-flowing melodies and structures. Not that unlike Telemann, oddly enough. Kind of relies on one not having made up one's mind already though... |
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