To a certain extent the 'them and us' culture has been fomented on both sides. Certainly in the early days our cause was not exactly advanced by some rather infantile bragging, which (as I have been made aware by off-board messages) gave others entirely the wrong impression of what this board is about, damage which will not easily be undone.

Of course RW would endorse this place; I guess his hope was that an external board would dish out all the criticism, less visible to the powers that be, leaving the corporation board a calmer, more supportive place. Of course that hasn't happened, because the posting minority haven't for a moment been convinced by the spin that's been placed on the changes, the majority of which are inept to say the least. Just as with the DAB standards, it will be a war of attrition: if people don't stay and make salient points, the justification for the changes becomes more credible. At the moment tOp is flooded with 'super-sevens' (so-called because of their I.D. numbers): brand new names, many of whom seem to have passed the pre-mod stage almost immediately and are posting such obvious drivel that it's seriously diluting the sensible postings, thus making the board theoretically more easily expendable. They need to be balanced out....

There's a column on the state of Radio 3, particularly the message boards, in the latest issue of Private Eye. It doesn't tell you anything you don't already know but anything that gives the matter a wider audience is welcome. It points out in particular that no other message board is subject to such censorship.

I have been led/steered/tempted to this forum by a BBC Message-board friend.  As this is my first contribution, I have read studiously through the whole of this discussion.  I am impressed, but not entirely in the way I should have hoped.

I agree that the 'other place' leaves much to be desired when it comes to R3 (both the programming and the MBs), and that what was done in such a peremptory fashion could and should have been handled better.  Where I start to disagree is over the route(s) taken (and still being taken) by far too many seemingly intelligent contributors.  Even after disregarding the 'loony fringe,' many remain who would appear to need lessons in understanding or complaining or both.

Too much has been said of conspiracy theory, Agents Provocateurs, 'plants' and the like.  You/we can't choose where we'd like to start from - we start from here because that's where we are.

Personally, I will continue to 'look in'  over yonder and hope to see some movement in the right direction.  When I see more constrained messages and stricter adherence to threads, I will perhaps join in.  From that position I should be better placed to achieve something.  Complaining about narrow threads by deliberately stepping outside them is simply asking to be moderated.  A (or even some) more general thread(s) is / are needed, but let's use guile, tact and understanding in our attempts to secure that end.

Carrots, not sticks.  ''Softly softly catchy monkey'' (which would of course be instantly deleted 'over there').  Make haste slowly.   I raised a formal complaint some while ago, in polite, restrained language (with the merest hint of humour) with a well-known Supermarket chain.  It led, eventually, to a personal telephone call to me from the Chief Executive just before he went on holiday, because he "didn't want me to have to await his return.''  It's not how you start, it's how you finish  (but you mustn't false start).

Finally, for those cynics who believe you can't get a feedback 'over there,'  a complaint of mine earlier this year drew a personal Email from the board host with a helpful explanatory reply.

Sorry if this looks a bit like more waffling  -  I just could not resist bashing something out by the time I had read all the foregoing replies and comments.

Bxxxx

I like your style.  Softly softly is a greatly undervalued and understated approach!

I suspect though that there is more going on behind the scenes than we would imagine from the publicly stated stuff on the boards.

Let's hope that's true and we all reach the right outcome.

Tommo

I don't know what kind of discussions are possible. How can one discuss Birtwisle if he was not on Breakfast show? Also with all my respect Breakfast show is just a few music pieces played together. It is not COTW or some other researched programme that one can discuss something. It is good show, but what is there to discuss?

Exactly t-p. I like Rob and quite often listen to him (when I can get up in time ) but what is there to discuss?

I find this board a far more inspiring and enjoyable place than the R3 board was before 19/2, even more so than the one we've got now.

Nothing wrong with a bit of high spirits (I assume that you're talking about the 'Vote for...' explosion).