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John W
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« Reply #285 on: 18:59:53, 21-01-2008 » |
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Thanks A, I was thinking about asking teachers. They might even have nice spare instruments of their own gathering dust. When I enquired at a local organ shop the owner said he didn't stock violins but was selling his daughter's violin for £50, it was a newish Primavera model (don't know if that is a Chinese make) but when I went to look at it it was a 3/4 size - it's a good job I've read up on all that, thanks to you folks here, I don't think he was going to tell me, but I took a ruler with me and it did also say 3/4 on the label inside  John |
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #286 on: 20:26:54, 21-01-2008 » |
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Although there are some good fiddles made in China, it's true that they've cornered the market at the cruddy end of things  You're wise to avoid that kind of instrument, because it's not just a question of tone-quality... the build-quality has a really poor impact on basic playability. Strina's already mentioned the two main downsides - a rubbishy bow and poor strings. But then the tuning-pegs slip, or stick, or won't turn evenly... the tuning adjusters either break or fall off, or maybe aren't even supplied at all (they are not essential, but they help to get the strings fine-tuned). The worst Chinese kit instruments I've seen have had twisted necks, or nuts so low that the strings were scraping the fingerboard by themselves Instruments like "Skylark" and "Lark" are really on the borderline between musical instruments and toys I think they're not named after the songbird, but instead as a thing you can have a bit of a lark on... |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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John W
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« Reply #287 on: 21:16:10, 21-01-2008 » |
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I also went to a shop in Nuneaton who only had a range of Stentors including a 'Conservatoire' model at £167 but I'm not sure how it's so much better than the student models, the wood on the top looked a bit strange.
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A
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« Reply #288 on: 08:49:50, 22-01-2008 » |
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John , you need a violinist with you when you look at these instruments... there are so many little points that would tell you which one is worth buying... IMHO
A
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Well, there you are.
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #289 on: 17:16:59, 22-01-2008 » |
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Must practise, must practise, must practise ...
... must stop looking at this board, must stop looking at this board ...
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A
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« Reply #290 on: 23:15:29, 22-01-2008 » |
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....... bet you haven't.... done either!!!  A |
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Well, there you are.
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John W
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« Reply #291 on: 22:07:43, 23-01-2008 » |
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Hi,
While I'm still pondering over a violin purchase let me mention another 'name' I've seen, sold by Murdoch & Murdoch and named the 'Maidstone'. Apparently these were imported by the 100,000s pre-WWI from Germany/Bohemia, for school children, I suppose the Edwardian equivalent of the Chinese imports today.
So, anyone played a Maidstone or know of the quality of the instrument; although about 100 years old, being like a factory product maybe the quality was variable?
John W
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #292 on: 15:17:21, 24-01-2008 » |
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Hi John - I don't know about the "Maidstone" violins particularly, but my 3/4 size was an approximately century-old German "factory" fiddle and it was very decent. But even if they are decent starter violins in general, it's difficult for a novice to assess what kind of condition a particular instrument may be in. If you get one from a reputable shop, you're probably OK - but basically I agree with A in recommending that you get a violinist or teacher to have a look with you. And be very, very careful if you decide to look on ebay. Artful photos can conceal all sorts of problems that could end up being horribly expensive to fix - assuming they're fixable at all!
By the way, I've posted some info about my Vivaldi gig (14 March) on the "Live Concert Thread." Sorry if this seems like excessive self-promotion, but I thought this would be an appropriate place to flag it up ...
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John W
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« Reply #293 on: 22:52:48, 24-01-2008 » |
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be very, very careful if you decide to look on ebay. Artful photos can conceal all sorts of problems that could end up being horribly expensive to fix - assuming they're fixable at all!
Thanks strina. I've bought items from ebay for many years and know what to expect; with the violins I'll only consider items from people who clearly know what they are selling. Some old instruments have been expertly repaired in their lifetime but the repair is usually still noticeable and the reputable sellers make the right statements about those. Watching some bidding patterns suggests that dealers are picking up most of the better older items with late high bids, but still getting the instruments for about half the dealer-shop price, so if I am to find something soon I would have to go higher than previous max.of £100, still very affordable for me (at this moment in time...) I've read of some unusual repairs. One 19thC item (circa 1820) said that the scroll and pegbox had been grafted onto a new neck, and I couldn't see the joins in the photos. I assume that when a violin is made the neck and scroll are made from one piece and the fingerboard is glued to that. Well it still went for well over £200, and to be honest still a bargain for such an item. John W |
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #294 on: 19:20:15, 27-01-2008 » |
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A, your new avatar has an, er, interesting technique.... In addition to everything else, he's stopping the strings with his left thumb!
(Actually, a teacher once suggested to me, in the Bach chaconne, in the middle of the first long arpeggiated bit where there's a chord that goes a-a'-c''-f'' (I hope I've got my '''''s right), that I play the lower a with my left thumb. Not being Jimi Hendrix I couldn't do it.)
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thompson1780
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« Reply #295 on: 19:44:03, 27-01-2008 » |
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Now that's interesting - as it's arpeggiated, would you do 1-1, 2, 1, or would you stick to half position and go 2-2, 3, 1?
Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #296 on: 19:56:41, 27-01-2008 » |
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John - more about violin hunting. Repairs on an old instrument are not a problem per se. In fact it would be unusual to find an old instrument that hadn't had work done to it. And grafting the scroll/pegbox onto a new neck isn't that odd. The current standard in neck shape and length is relatively recent, and an early 19th century or older instrument that hadn't had its neck changed was probably considered too rubbish to bother trying new improvements on.
I've played on composite instruments (table and back from different instruments, maybe even different makers) that were lovely. My own violin doesn't have its original scroll. I have colleagues whose violins have extensive repairs and patches, yet still make gorgeous sounds. These things bring otherwise unaffordable instruments within reach.
In all of these cases, though, the repairs have been done with true expertise. I have seen repairwork even by reputable shops and luthiers which frankly doesn't begin to match what a real expert can do. Small repairs done by a reputable person on an inexpensive fiddle are probably fine, but I'd avoid anything that sounds like it's had serious work done, no matter how expert the dealer sounds.
And there are some small repairs to avoid at all costs. If there are any cracks in the soundpost region, on either the table or the back, those are bound to affect the tone no matter how well repaired. Plus they can easily reopen and cause more trouble. And soundpost cracks will make it very difficult to resell a violin.
I still think it's best to buy a violin in person, and with as much input from others as possible. (That being said, I decided I wanted my violin about a nanosecond after picking it up off the table at an auction viewing. But I really knew what I was looking for.)
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strinasacchi
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« Reply #297 on: 20:04:24, 27-01-2008 » |
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Tommo - the bottom of the arpeggio is an octave, not a fifth, so half-position would be a horrible stretch (2 on G-string, up octave to 4 on D-string, up minor third to 3(!) on A-string, up fourth to 1 on E-string: YUCK). I play it moving the first finger back and forth from the G to E strings. But you lose the resonance you normally get with an arpeggio when you leave your fingers down. That's why my teacher suggested the thumb. It's a great idea in theory, but I couldn't get it to work.
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thompson1780
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« Reply #298 on: 20:44:04, 27-01-2008 » |
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Doh! Tommo is daft. You did say a'-a''....
Hmmm. That is tricky. Gut tells me 1-4-2-1. Resonance will have to give way to playability here...?
Tommo
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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George Garnett
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« Reply #299 on: 20:45:58, 27-01-2008 » |
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Big toe perhaps? It isn't doing anything else.
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