The Radio 3 Boards Forum from myforum365.com
11:36:56, 02-12-2008 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Whilst we happily welcome all genuine applications to our forum, there may be times when we need to suspend registration temporarily, for example when suffering attacks of spam.
 If you want to join us but find that the temporary suspension has been activated, please try again later.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 8
  Print  
Author Topic: Political Correctness  (Read 1794 times)
trained-pianist
*****
Posts: 5455



« Reply #60 on: 20:55:48, 14-09-2008 »

The best word they used was "Privatization". They could have a Russian word, but that would mean that Russians would understand what they were doing. With an English word nobody knew exactly what it means.
Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #61 on: 20:57:10, 14-09-2008 »

The best word they used was "Privatization". They could have a Russian word, but that would mean that Russians would understand what they were doing. With an English word nobody knew exactly what it means.
I don't think the English word quite gets across the full meaning either, t-p...  Sad
Logged
Swan_Knight
Temporary Restriction
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 428



« Reply #62 on: 22:16:39, 14-09-2008 »

I think Baz is running Mischievously Obtuse 5.3. Baz, you need to upgrade, everyone can see right through it.

The police force need to have something like the BPA because the police force is pervaded by racism against black people. If it were pervaded by racism against white people there would need to be a WPA in order to address their concerns. However, it is not. Therefore such a thing is not required.

SwanKnight, it is difficult to imagine what planet you might be living on. I may not live in Yorkshire but I have spent plenty of time there, thank you very much, and I do live in a highly multiracial part of London. If I went down now to Walthamstow Market and started freely using the word "nigger" I would not retain an upright position for very long and would not deserve to. It is perniciously disingenuous to deny the word's disparaging connotations in any situation in which you or I might use it.

I can hear the familiar note of hysteria in your voice, comrade Barrett.

The planet I live on is called the 'real world' - it differs from the one you live on in that its populace consists of all forms of human life and  not just the party-line subscribing, Guardian adoring, Spare Rib devouring nullities with whom you would seem to habitually mix and feel comfortable amongst.  Maybe you ought to spend a few days in the areas I mention where your no doubt very sensitive admonishments of the locals for their 'pernicious' language would land you in a similarly horizontal position to the one you'd find yourself in if you adopted converse behaviour in your own multi-racial neck of the woods.

You might also be interested to know that President Lyndon Baines Johnson - who, by common consent, did more for the well-being of America's black population than any Chief Executive since Lincoln - habitually referred to his Civil Rights legislation as 'nigger bills'. The Barrett World View would presumably decree that he be excoriated as a pernicious racist for all the practical good he did.

Honestly, Richard, sometimes it's hard to believe that you're a real person (then again, perhaps you aren't) so totally do you conform to the stereotype of the smug, self-satisfied, self-righteous leftist.
Logged

...so flatterten lachend die Locken....
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #63 on: 22:30:38, 14-09-2008 »

The Barrett World View would presumably decree that he be excoriated as a pernicious racist for all the practical good he did.
Well, on the one hand these things change generation by generation. On the other it wasn't all roses with LBJ you know.

Quote from: wiki for want of anything better to hand
He often privately cursed the Vietnam War, and in a conversation with Robert McNamara, Johnson assailed "the bunch of commies" running the New York Times for their articles against the war effort.[39]Johnson believed that America could not afford to lose and risk appearing weak in the eyes of the world. In a discussion about the war with former President Dwight Eisenhower, Johnson said he was "trying to win it just as fast as I can in every way that I know how" and later stated that he needed "all the help I can get."[40] Johnson escalated the war effort continuously from 1964 to 1968 and the number of American deaths rose. In two weeks in May 1968 alone American deaths numbered 1,800 with total casualties at 18,000. Alluding to the Domino Theory, he said, "If we allow Vietnam to fall, tomorrow we’ll be fighting in Hawaii, and next week in San Francisco." When reporters repeatedly pressed Johnson in late 1967 on why he was so committed to the war, Johnson exposed an old war wound to them and said, That is why.[41]
Logged
perfect wagnerite
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1568



« Reply #64 on: 07:09:03, 15-09-2008 »

You might also be interested to know that President Lyndon Baines Johnson - who, by common consent, did more for the well-being of America's black population than any Chief Executive since Lincoln - habitually referred to his Civil Rights legislation as 'nigger bills'.

Sorry, not a valid argument.  Martin Luther King used the word too - precisely because it is a word that is a legacy of slavery.  He used it to add rhetorical force to his attack on the institutions that still advocated racial segregation.

This is an argument about power and privilege.  I as a white, middle class, educated, straight male living in a powerful Western society have never experienced systematic discrimination (and please don't give me that Daily Mail guff about middle class victimhood).  Does that not imply that I have a responsibility to listen to those who have suffered such discrimination, and reflect that experience in the way I use language? 

Which brings us back to the central question - do you think it is right to use as a signifier for a group of people a word that is loaded with connotations of slavery?  Do you not believe that it is for those who are thus signified to have a say in defining the context in which the use of such language is acceptable?
« Last Edit: 07:25:59, 15-09-2008 by perfect wagnerite » Logged

At every one of these [classical] concerts in England you will find rows of weary people who are there, not because they really like classical music, but because they think they ought to like it. (Shaw, Don Juan in Hell)
trained-pianist
*****
Posts: 5455



« Reply #65 on: 07:31:42, 15-09-2008 »

Does PC include in it somewhere proposition that unqualified people should have positions of medical doctors and other professional positions?
They fought against situation during time people apply for medical degree in America successfully and they won. There was so much discrimination against white males in America at a time. I was looking at it and at the same time I could not believe it.
I don't know how it is there now, but my friends there tell me that it is very bad.
Yes, I understand that desadvantaged people should be encouraged for a while, but for how long? Would one century be enough? Or may be 50 years is enough. Most of this people go to sport anyway. And it is better if schools are better for everyone instead of busing people around.
« Last Edit: 08:47:18, 15-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #66 on: 08:44:37, 15-09-2008 »

Honestly, Richard, sometimes it's hard to believe that you're a real person (then again, perhaps you aren't)

Well, he could presumably be any one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Barrett_(musician)
(A bit of advice there: don't call him no n-word or he come back from the grave and go medieval on yo presumably white ass.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Barrett_(lawyer)
(Don't call him no n-word either but for slightly different reasons although the consequences might be similar.)
http://www.richardbarrettartist.co.uk/
(Ah, a Welsh one, we might be getting warmer...)
http://www.ump.co.uk/composer%20pages/barrett.htm
(No, just too improbable, what a silly idea.)

On the other hand searches for Swan Knight just turn up a picture called lohengrin-kitsch, I'm afraid... (not that searches for Oliver Sudden are any more productive!)

Logged
Robert Dahm
***
Posts: 197


« Reply #67 on: 08:55:34, 15-09-2008 »

Quote from: Oliver Sudden
don't call him no n-word or he come back from the grave and go medieval on yo presumably white ass

Now, Ollie, don't you think that bringing the smack talk is just a teensy bit racist? Wink
Logged
oliver sudden
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 6411



« Reply #68 on: 09:01:26, 15-09-2008 »

Quote from: Oliver Sudden
don't call him no n-word or he come back from the grave and go medieval on yo presumably white ass

Now, Ollie, don't you think that bringing the smack talk is just a teensy bit racist? Wink
It's not my fault. A vision of Ving Rhames in the guise of Marcellus Wallis told me to say it. I was powerless.

"Does Richard Barrett LOOK like a..."
"That's enough, Ollie."
"Oops, yes, sorry."

(In all seriousness - I do hope the 'second degree' was clear. If not and the post has actually caused offence, that was not the intention and I shall gladly moderate myself.)
Logged
Ron Dough
Admin/Moderator Group
*****
Posts: 5133



WWW
« Reply #69 on: 09:15:27, 15-09-2008 »

On a purely practical note, there are at least a score of members here who have met Richard Barrett personally: he posts under his own name, so there's really no doubt that he exists, and he has posted on a wide variety of subjects, scientific, humourous, family-related and musical as well as political, giving a pretty rounded picture of his personality and interests, filling out his character to a considerable degree.

The one-dimensionality ascribed to him by Swan Knight is ironically probably more likely to be the sort of view that people have of S_K himself (except with somewhat different political inclinations.)                  
Logged
harmonyharmony
*****
Posts: 4080



WWW
« Reply #70 on: 09:16:24, 15-09-2008 »

Of course Richard Barrett isn't a real person. He's played by William Gaunt.
Or at least that's what the UN wants you to think...
Logged

'is this all we can do?'
anonymous student of the University of Berkeley, California quoted in H. Draper, 'The new student revolt' (New York: Grove Press, 1965)
http://www.myspace.com/itensemble
Turfan Fragment
*****
Posts: 1330


Formerly known as Chafing Dish


« Reply #71 on: 17:05:52, 15-09-2008 »

If there is a tiff btw two members of this board, no matter how trivial, it might be valuable to the well-being of the board if the moderators didn't weigh in on the matter until asked to do so.

Richard can speak for himself if he feels inclined.

Sorry, I'm in a rank mood and might regret posting this. But then I'm not a moderator! Wheee!!
Logged

Daniel
*****
Posts: 764



« Reply #72 on: 23:21:37, 15-09-2008 »

Swan knight,

I cannot understand what you are complaining about.
 
If a group of people are upset about a word used to describe them because they feel it has connotations of horrific abuse and oppression of them in the past, why do you want to use it? The only inference I can make is that you want to upset them.
 
This is simply matter of respecting someone elses distress and reacting accordingly.

And I have never been anywhere in the uk where the 'n' word is even close to acceptable, apart from by people who clearly wish that there was more discrimination and oppression. That has been my experience.

And the issue of black people themselves using the word is completely different, surely you must see that. Apart from anything else, by using a word yourself that is
used by others to insult/demean you, you can I think to an extent reclaim the word and with the use of irony implicit in that act, de-fang it, and partially take away the power from those who seek to hurt you with it.
Logged
Robert Dahm
***
Posts: 197


« Reply #73 on: 03:07:07, 16-09-2008 »

This is simply matter of respecting someone elses distress and reacting accordingly.

Precisely. You wouldn't use the fact that some people enjoy being punched as an excuse to go around doing it to people. Certainly, one might have friends who don't mind the use of a particular term, but this is based on mutually (if tacitly) agreed boundaries established by the nature and closeness of the relationship.

One trend I've noticed (and am guilty of myself) is the ridicule of discrimination itself via the adoption of absurdly racist/misogynist tropes. Is this sort of thing - which would definitely be immensely offensive if delivered in earnest - in itself intrinsically 'racist'?
Logged
strinasacchi
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 864


« Reply #74 on: 18:15:34, 16-09-2008 »

I think so-called PC terminology is about an attempt to undermine the presumptions and prejudices inherent in language used by those with power, often unthinkingly, but very often insultingly, about those with less power.  It is an attempt to shift the point of view from the person speaking to the person spoken about.  Why should this arouse anyone's ire?

Cast your mind back to childhood.  Odds are everyone here had a teacher, an older relative, a bigger and stronger schoolmate or sibling, call you by a nickname you absolutely hated.  The more you objected, the more they would laugh and think it was cute you got angry about it.  Can you not remember the sheer rage you felt at not being taken seriously?  Maybe someone else overheard this nickname and assumed it was a proper one, and started using it as well without intending any pain.  Nevertheless the pain was there.

Now expand that rage and pain beyond an isolated personal event, to centuries of prejudice, fear, hatred and condescension of one group of people against another.  Why is it unreasonable to want to change that?

The exercise in shifting the point of view from the person speaking to the person spoken about is a very useful one, and extends well beyond language.  This is what PC-ness, for lack of a better term, was trying to achieve.  After centuries of talking (hectoring and lecturing), it was trying to introduce the valuable concept of listening.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 8
  Print  
 
Jump to: