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Author Topic: how the other half crunches  (Read 5589 times)
increpatio
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« Reply #255 on: 23:22:38, 16-09-2008 »

Just one more thing - I'd like to make an observation in favour of the idea of the mods having different accounts when in their mod role.  I'm not quite sure what to make of Ollie's role in this, I think he probably handled it as well as anyone could.  But it would be useful for a person whom a moderator is supporting in an argument - and for the rest of us - to be able to distinguish if they are being supported in an "official" capacity or simply as a fellow-boarder.
Traditionally I think the mods post in red text when they're acting in their official capacity.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #256 on: 23:27:30, 16-09-2008 »

[It's more usually maroon (and often also italicised) as a point of fact.]
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Baz
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« Reply #257 on: 23:38:15, 16-09-2008 »

[It's more usually maroon (and often also italicised) as a point of fact.]

Careful! Are you writing this as Ron Dough, or as Moderator Dough?

Baz  Grin
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #258 on: 23:41:25, 16-09-2008 »

[The answer is surely in the rubric, Member Baz.]
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increpatio
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« Reply #259 on: 00:29:07, 17-09-2008 »

[The answer is surely in the rubric, Member Baz.]
bravo!
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Sydney Grew
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« Reply #260 on: 01:58:41, 17-09-2008 »

You may find these links of interest...

http://www.philosophynow.org/

http://www.rbphilo.com/

We are grateful to Lord Byron for his useful indicators.
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Lord Byron
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« Reply #261 on: 09:08:45, 17-09-2008 »

 Smiley
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Ruby2
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« Reply #262 on: 09:52:02, 17-09-2008 »

The unemployed bankers will find employment with other banks, business is still out there, it is just that by going bust, a bank can wind down with the bad debts, new lending is still going on,someone has to do it, and going into banking is a risk the same as any profession.  Having studied economics, bankers know this.    Yes, you see them walking out with that cardboard box but they earn high salaries and walk past the homeless saying 'get a job' so you know, well, the world, and all that.
Don't forget that banks are huge organisations that emply more than "bankers" ( Wink) on huge salaries. A lot of my friends all work for a prominent UK bank that's having a bit of a rough time at the moment, on pretty average salaries.  In that area it's a huge employer - goodness knows what will happen if it goes under.  They won't all be able to wander into other jobs without many moving house.  And we all know how much fun the housing market is right now...
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #263 on: 10:51:53, 17-09-2008 »

Ho!  Hate to say I told you so.... Grin

US government rescues insurer AIG 

Investor George Soros is gloomy about the future.
The US Federal Reserve has announced an $85bn (£48bn) rescue package for AIG, the country's biggest insurance company, to save it from bankruptcy.

AIG will get an $85bn loan, in return for an 80% public stake in the firm.

The rescue follows the collapse of US investment giant Lehman Brothers, which caused share prices to plummet across the world's financial markets.

Meanwhile, Barclays said it had reached a deal to buy Lehman's US investment banking and capital markets businesses.

The $250m deal, which is subject to approval from the bankruptcy court, will make the British bank the third biggest investment bank in the US.

Barclays will also purchase Lehman's New York headquarters and its two data centres in New Jersey for $1.5bn.

Emergency meeting

The rescue of AIG - which has a trillion dollars in assets and insures bank loans around the world - prompted a tentative rally on Asian markets.

Wednesday trading saw gains in Tokyo, Taiwan, Singapore and Seoul, though prices in Hong Kong fell after starting higher.

 

 These are challenging times for our financial markets



US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson


Read Robert Peston's blog
Credit crunch jargon explained

The dollar also rose against major currencies.

The board of the Federal Reserve made its decision about AIG "with the full support of the Treasury Department", it said in a statement, adding that the secured loan included conditions designed to protect "the interests of the US government and taxpayers".

US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson refused to bail out Lehman Brothers, the fourth-largest investment bank in the US, after it filed for bankruptcy protection on Monday.

However, Mr Paulson said he supported the Fed's move to assist AIG and said the move would protect taxpayers.

"These are challenging times for our financial markets," he said.

Correspondents say the demise of AIG - which has policy holders in more than 100 countries and insures deals and investments across the globe - would have a far greater impact on financial markets than Lehman's collapse.

Were the company to fail, many banks and investment funds in the US and around the world would lose their insurance cover at a time when defaults on payments are likely to rise.

The Governor of New York, David Paterson, said AIG had so many business interests it would be hard to predict how widespread its bankruptcy would have been felt.

"Its tentacles go further in to the avenues of business, as in mortgages, as in credit, as in hedge funds, as in countless ways that affect consumers, that affect drivers, that affect homeowners, affect passengers," he said.

AIG had posted losses in each of the last nine months.

It was badly affected by the collapse of the US housing market, says the BBC's business reporter Rob Young, owing to the underwriting payments it was forced to make when customers defaulted on their loans.

Market slump

The AIG plan calls for the government to seize up to 80% of the company and remove its management, in a similar fashion to the way it took control of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which were crippled by the US housing crisis.

 AIG - KEY FACTS
Employs 116,000 people in more than 100 countries
Employs more than 2,000 people in the UK
Founded in 1919 in Shanghai
Now based in New York
Sponsors Manchester United
Sells insurance policies through Argos and Boots
Source: AIG



The White House welcomed the package, saying the deal was made "in the interest of promoting stability in financial markets and limiting damage to the broader economy".

Meanwhile, the Fed has left interest rates unchanged at 2%. The BBC's Matthew Price in New York said the bank had decided an interest rate cut would not help to alleviate the short-term financial crisis.

On Wall Street, the Dow Jones rallied on Tuesday, closing 141 points higher having on Monday suffered its worst day's trading since the September 2001 attacks on the US.

But leading indices across Europe ended lower, with banking shares being the worst hit.

Central banks around the world responded by carrying out emergency measures to keep markets liquid.

The Bank Of England and the Bank of Japan injected £20bn (25bn euros; $36bn) and 2.5 trillion yen ($24.1bn; £13bn) respectively into their money markets.

The extra funding came as the interest rates at which banks lend to each other rocketed - as they did at the start of the credit crunch.

 
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Lord Byron
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« Reply #264 on: 11:06:46, 17-09-2008 »

They are putting off the inevitable, banks will call in loans, assets will go to auction,prices will fall and then speculators will say 'cor, bargain' and prices will stabilise or rise.

China and eastern europe can produce at a much lower cost base when their employees do not have expensive housing costs, what did people expect to happen ?

We live in a global economy.




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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #265 on: 11:11:43, 17-09-2008 »

Sooooo...... one of the United State's biggest companies is being nationalised?

I wonder if Gordon Brown will pick up the hint and start nationalising... oh... the railways, the gas board, the waterboard, the GPO, would be a good start...

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BobbyZ
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« Reply #266 on: 11:12:57, 17-09-2008 »

No, Brown seems to be concentrating on getting Lloyds TSB to bale out HBOS.
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Baz
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« Reply #267 on: 11:14:32, 17-09-2008 »

So AIG has been rescued - that is an immediate relief. But there is a flip side is there not?!

The possible collapse of AIG caused panic across the world, because IT was the underwriter for most loans/mortgages across the major World banks. If its insurance policies disappeared, there would have been a banking crisis, and major banks would have had to raise enormous sums of cash to safeguard themselves in the event of defaults in repayments of debts held by millions of customers. That immediate fear has now been tempered. BUT...

...we now seem to have a situation where the agent now providing insurance for these is (with an 80% stake) the US Government! So what was formerly a purely "business" arrangement has now become a "political" one. Pressure could, if wanted, now be placed politically upon sectors of the economic world. It may also be thought that the whole cause of this crisis - rash and unsecured lending in the US - was the result of the same government's slack regulation of financial dealings, and that does not immediately fill us with calmness and confidence since they now effectively control the world's financial dealings.

Baz
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Ruby2
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« Reply #268 on: 11:15:33, 17-09-2008 »

No, Brown seems to be concentrating on getting Lloyds TSB to bale out HBOS.
Sad Sad Sad
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Milly Jones
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« Reply #269 on: 11:20:30, 17-09-2008 »

So AIG has been rescued - that is an immediate relief. But there is a flip side is there not?!

The possible collapse of AIG caused panic across the world, because IT was the underwriter for most loans/mortgages across the major World banks. If its insurance policies disappeared, there would have been a banking crisis, and major banks would have had to raise enormous sums of cash to safeguard themselves in the event of defaults in repayments of debts held by millions of customers. That immediate fear has now been tempered. BUT...

...we now seem to have a situation where the agent now providing insurance for these is (with an 80% stake) the US Government! So what was formerly a purely "business" arrangement has now become a "political" one. Pressure could, if wanted, now be placed politically upon sectors of the economic world. It may also be thought that the whole cause of this crisis - rash and unsecured lending in the US - was the result of the same government's slack regulation of financial dealings, and that does not immediately fill us with calmness and confidence since they now effectively control the world's financial dealings.

Baz

Sobering indeed Baz.  All the same it HAD to be rescued.  Somehow.  There was no way it could have been allowed to go down.

We'll just now have to watch, wait and hope that the US now starts having a bit of commonsense with regard to financial matters.  Don't hold your breath though.  Sad
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