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Ian Pace
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« Reply #60 on: 10:23:21, 03-09-2008 » |
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For the third time: an "intelligent" newspaper should be concerned to challenge rather than to confirm cultural prejudices. Shouldn't it?
Fine, but does most of the material sympathetic to classical music/opera in newspapers and periodicals (of which there is much more) do that to any greater an extent? |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #61 on: 10:39:56, 03-09-2008 » |
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Once the dethroning of 'high culture' from its privileged position in the wider consciousness has been achieved, what follows next?
So far as the wider consciousness is concerned, I'm not convinced that intellectualism is viewed with anything other than deep suspicion either. Perhaps we'd all be better off giving up aspirations altogether and returning to the caves, where grunts and gestures are the only purveyors of thought, and sheer brute force the sole provider of privilege.
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #62 on: 11:17:17, 03-09-2008 » |
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Once the dethroning of 'high culture' from its privileged position in the wider consciousness has been achieved, what follows next? Changes in priorities with respect to funding and education (this is already happening, especially in the second case), and possibly a more generous view of other forms of cultural practices. And possibly a redefinition of 'culture' that is much more inclusive. Now, all of these things generate plenty of their own problems, and I certainly don't subscribe to an all-purpose cultural relativism; however, if high culture is to survive in any remotely prominent form (it may not, and maybe something else will take its place?) it needs a better defence than simply its being 'high'. The comparison with Carlos Santana, Chris Rea and Mark Knopfler all playing together did make me laugh, and she may have a point... |
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #63 on: 11:25:09, 03-09-2008 » |
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I was suprised to learn from the article that Eovotos' opera is mainly arias.
I was fascinated by the idea of opera, apart from the 78s of Puccini in the home, from the time I heard of it. Being a superior art form is not the point (Wagner thought it was, but that's Wagner for you), that was not the attraction. My mother always said opera was ridiculous. So with no encouragement, I remember rushing home for school to catch the end of the Radio 3 Thursday afternoon broadcast of Mozart, and listening to it furtively, embarrassed if I was found out.
If I am going to an unknown opera, I always try to find out the plot, synopses and musical highpoints first, and if possible listen to some of the music. Listening to bits of Madame Butterfly to prepare yourself for Handel's Samson, seems very perverse.
And she doesn't seem to realise that Samson isn't strictly an opera.
This failure to do her homework puts her in the same camp as the corporate catering crowd, who she, understandably, so dislikes.
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« Last Edit: 13:04:56, 03-09-2008 by Don Basilio »
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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...trj...
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« Reply #64 on: 11:32:07, 03-09-2008 » |
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I was suprised to learn from the article that Eovotos' opera is mainly arias.
(This may be for another thread, Don, but it is quite conventional in that respect - mostly arias and a couple of important duets, relatively clearly separated out from each other. Apparently the librettist originally proposed something even more classically organised.) |
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rauschwerk
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« Reply #65 on: 11:35:43, 03-09-2008 » |
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Alex James is pretty cringe-making at times ... But as a piece of journalism I'd say the Guardian piece is much, much worse. Both trot out cliches - but James is saying, in effect, try something new; Barton is just regurgitating the old lame prejudices.
If I were running a record store I just might consider reclassifying all the classical stuff as "cooking music", "snogging music", "shagging music" etc (maybe even w**king music) and see if sales increase. Where are all these "classical snobs"? I've been into classical music for most of my life and can't recall meeting any. How should I recognise one? |
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richard barrett
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« Reply #67 on: 11:46:51, 03-09-2008 » |
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maybe even w**king music That would have to be the mediaeval composer and poet Oswald von Wolkenstein.  Unless you meant something else. |
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oliver sudden
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« Reply #68 on: 11:50:39, 03-09-2008 » |
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Where are all these "classical snobs"? I've been into classical music for most of my life and can't recall meeting any. How should I recognise one?
Here's one:  |
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George Garnett
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« Reply #69 on: 12:01:55, 03-09-2008 » |
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I seem to have developed a soft spot for Alex James. I couldn't find anything in his Sun piece that I actually disagreed with (apart from the fact that I don't sing 'One more Cornetto' in the bath but he couldn't really be expected to know that). FWIW I much prefer his concept of reclaiming classical music for everyone to that of aesthetically 'dethroning' it.
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thompson1780
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« Reply #70 on: 13:21:35, 03-09-2008 » |
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My gripe is not with the individual, but how the article should be viewed / used. I'm not fine with them being presented / positioned as a justification for why rock is better than opera. In the end I don't understand why a newspaper posts a personal view with no general meaning for all of us. It's not news, and it's not reporting.
But perhaps it is time to see what positive we can get from the article, and what we should do as a result: Laura Barton doesn't like the repetition inherant in arias. Perhaps we could: - explain opera better to first-timers. Opera has periods of dramatic flow as it let's the plot unfold. But sometimes, it stops the action and explores the inner emotional state of the protagonists. (That's too simple, but you get the gist of the difference between recit and aria)
- encourage opera composers to merge dramatic plot-unfolding and emotional exploration in their new operas
- give useful pointers to first-timers about where to explore differences. Words may be repeated, but listen for other changes?
- only advertise operas with no repetition as suitable for first-timers
- research with a wider group of first-timers what their views on the repetitive nature of opera are
Laura Barton does not like the moaning of Samson. Perhaps we could: - explain opera better to first-timers. Unlike single rock-songs, opera explores a wide range of emotions, and not just moaning (unlike the entire output of The Smiths
 ). Listening to an opera is like listening to a medley of different rock artists reactions to a particular situation/story. (Again very poorly explained, but you get the gist). - encourage opera composers to avoid moaning in their new operas
- give useful pointers to first-timers about where to explore emotions. Is it all moaning?
- only advertise operas with no moaning as suitable for first-timers
- research with a wider group of first-timers what their views on the emotional messages of opera are
In the end, I think the only useful thing arising from this article is as a stimulus for research, to see whether Laura Barton's views are representative of the audience opera would like to tap in to. Tommo PS But please can new opera writers make all their works jolly? |
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Made by Thompson & son, at the Violin & c. the West end of St. Paul's Churchyard, LONDON
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Ruby2
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« Reply #71 on: 13:25:33, 03-09-2008 » |
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If I am going to an unknown opera, I always try to find out the plot, synopses and musical highpoints first, and if possible listen to some of the music. Listening to bits of Madame Butterfly to prepare yourself for Handel's Samson, seems very perverse. Interesting point - that may well be the key to it. I find any kind of gig a bit boring if I know almost none of the music; it's much harder work to maintain an appreciating ear than it is to let your brain enjoy the recognition. |
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"Two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights do make a left." - Rohan Candappa
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Don Basilio
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« Reply #72 on: 13:30:45, 03-09-2008 » |
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I honestly don't think she wanted to like opera, and she was looking for anything to confirm her prejudices pre-conceived ideas.
What a waste of a ticket to Glyndebourne.
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« Last Edit: 12:21:53, 04-09-2008 by Don Basilio »
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To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh: a time to mourn, and a time to dance
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #73 on: 13:39:10, 03-09-2008 » |
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But that may equally be true of many of those who opera companies want to try and attract. And somehow placing the onus of blame upon them is hardly likely to change their minds.
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #74 on: 13:43:38, 03-09-2008 » |
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I honestly don't think she wanted to like opera, and she was looking for anything to confirm her prejudices pre-conceived ideas.
More than that - she was paid not to like opera, and was sent on a wrecking mission by the little twonks at the Guardian. "Quasi-journalist enjoys trip to opera" = "not news".
"Quasi-journalist goes to opera and despises not only the show, but the audience and entire genre " = "news" |
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
- Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
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