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Author Topic: Someone who doesn't like opera goes to lots of opera and writes about it  (Read 1940 times)
Ron Dough
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« Reply #75 on: 13:49:29, 03-09-2008 »

Most people who enjoy opera tend to do their homework first: there is so much to take in that if it is the spectator's first exposure to a piece (let alone the genre), its very novelty is likely confuse, and quite possibly alienate. For most people, its conventions (plainly unnatural) will seem daunting at first, but as with many other worthwhile experiences, once the thing clicks, it becomes cumulative and addictive: the more one knows about opera, the more one enjoys it, and the more one wants to know.

Melding several art forms into a hybrid is essentially a high-risk strategy: there's so much that could go wrong. It often does: but when everything does manage come together, then it's a very potent force indeed. (Incidentally, on a personal level, I find that this can apply as much to cinema as opera, except that in cinema you're permanently denied the frisson of a live experience.)
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Ian Pace
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« Reply #76 on: 13:55:28, 03-09-2008 »

Blimey - a semi-serious article like this is a 'wrecking mission'? Maybe she should have gone for the burning down option instead, probably would have been less controversial...
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'These acts of keeping politics out of music, however, do not prevent musicology from being a political act . . .they assure that every apolitical act assumes a greater political immediacy' - Philip Bohlman, 'Musicology as a Political Act'
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #77 on: 13:58:34, 03-09-2008 »


(Incidentally, on a personal level, I find that this can apply as much to cinema as opera, except that in cinema you're permanently denied the frisson of a live experience.)

You mean it's not live at the cinema?  I thought there were little men behind the screen acting all the parts?   I demand that a substandard journalist from the Guardian writes a biting expose of how people have been fooled by the parasites of the cinema industry!!

Blimey - a semi-serious article like this is a 'wrecking mission'?

Semi-serious?  You jest, surely?  It was tired, cheapjack tabloid shite.
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Ron Dough
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« Reply #78 on: 14:20:27, 03-09-2008 »

 Grin

But cinema is a similar hybrid art form, nonetheless, Rei, where several usually unconnected disciplines work together to create the final effect. OK, so films can be tweaked to give maximum effect in editing, but once they're released, that's it (unless there's a Director's Cut or some such).  In that sense, there's less to go wrong, other than a projector failure. There's also far less to explore: the change of a single cast-member within an existing production can have far reaching effects, and new, different, productions throwing a new light on old classics is the norm - remakes in cinema are rather rarer. And zero chance of those rare occasions when a performance suddenly ignites, and the whole thing reaches a new level completely.
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Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #79 on: 14:40:19, 03-09-2008 »

Grin

But cinema is a similar hybrid art form, nonetheless, Rei, where several usually unconnected disciplines work together to create the final effect.

Entirely agreed, Ron.  I've always felt that opera was - in the context of a social entertainment - the direct precursor of the movies.  It combined - as far as technology of the time permitted - the phenomena of "big stars" in the main roles, the "international" element of the same show being seen all over the world (in an "agreed" shortlist of languages for reasons of practicality) - a stirring and fullblooded orchestral "soundtrack" - and the most expensive and elaborate scenery, machinery and costumes that the budget and technology would run to.    In this context the singing made "sense" - it was a more aesthetic and credible way of carrying the dramatic text to the back of the gods WITHOUT SHOUTING IT ALL IN HECTORIAN FASHION Wink

Quote
And zero chance of those rare occasions when a performance suddenly ignites, and the whole thing reaches a new level completely.

I suppose the trade-off for the public - especially in the boondocks - is the cast-iron certainty of seeing the self-same performance as the folks in the big cities saw, to the same quality and without any corners cut.   There is, I think, a lot to be said for that rationale,  and home-cinema has brought the movie "greats" even closer...  from our high-streets to our hearthsides.  It's an extraordinary luxury to have the C21st equivalents of stars like Patti or Tagliabue "on tap" whenever we fancy seeing them in their greatest roles.  This element, certainly, has largely gone from opera - because there are now bigger and better movie-stars than any opera-star of the C19th.
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #80 on: 14:46:15, 03-09-2008 »

I tend to side with Ian Pace on this. The article wasn't particularly well written but I do believe it was honest and the writer made valid points about what she didn't like about the "opera experience". I suspect I would have written about similar things if I was told to visit some operas and give my opinion.

But that tells us nothing about what opera is doing "wrong". Nor does it imply that opera needs to change in any way. Just because a random woman (and me) doesn't like opera is no reason for opera to reinvent itself. I can accept that opera just isn't for me, and move on. I don't expect the opera community to lose any sleep over that, or to change to "attract" me in some way. Some things suit some people and some things don't, and opera should continue trying to please the people it does suit.

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Allegro, ma non tanto
Reiner Torheit
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« Reply #81 on: 14:56:39, 03-09-2008 »

Tom Service puts an alternative position in today's Guardian:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/09/laura_barton.html

The article is illustrated on the newspaper's homepage by this image

which is quite indicative of the kind of "semi-serious" approach (ho-hum)
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"I was, for several months, mutely in love with a coloratura soprano, who seemed to me to have wafted straight from Paradise to the stage of the Odessa Opera-House"
-  Leon Trotsky, "My Life"
Ron Dough
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« Reply #82 on: 15:00:48, 03-09-2008 »

There is, I think, a lot to be said for that rationale,  and home-cinema has brought the movie "greats" even closer...  from our high-streets to our hearthsides.  It's an extraordinary luxury to have the C21st equivalents of stars like Patti or Tagliabue "on tap" whenever we fancy seeing them in their greatest roles.  This element, certainly, has largely gone from opera - because there are now bigger and better movie-stars than any opera-star of the C19th.

And yet the 'Opera star' ethos continues, and with its demand for next-to-no rehearsals, and an insistence that the performer is more important than the piece, helps to perpetuate the same clichés about opera in general as the article, which had a rather strange choice of operas for a tyro to see, and a strange order, too - The Rake before Figaro?

Both you and I know that there are ensemble companies where stardom is irrelevant, and a large proportion of the regular audience comes from very ordinary, unprivileged backgrounds. Even in the UK.
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harmonyharmony
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« Reply #83 on: 15:01:43, 03-09-2008 »

The Charlotte Higgins blog puts a more positive spin on the article. Now this is the sort of thing that I would have liked to see printed alongside the original article to give perspective and the opportunity for something approaching a rounded view.
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Ruby2
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« Reply #84 on: 15:02:18, 03-09-2008 »

Just because a random woman (and me) doesn't like opera is no reason for opera to reinvent itself. I can accept that opera just isn't for me, and move on. I don't expect the opera community to lose any sleep over that, or to change to "attract" me in some way. Some things suit some people and some things don't, and opera should continue trying to please the people it does suit.
Agreed.  I don't think it was the article that was flawed so much as the idea of it that was rather silly and pointless.

I can understand people getting annoyed about it however if there's a chance that someone who might have been toying with the idea of going is subsequently put off by the article.  I think that's the only risk.

Someone suggested earlier that it would have been a more balanced article if for instance she had talked to someone who loves opera about why.  I think that's very true.
« Last Edit: 15:04:14, 03-09-2008 by Ruby2 » Logged

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richard barrett
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« Reply #85 on: 15:07:11, 03-09-2008 »

Tom Service puts an alternative position in today's Guardian:

It's that déjà-vu feeling all over again!
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« Reply #86 on: 15:18:31, 03-09-2008 »

He's just paid to fight rhetorical fires these days isn't he?

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IgnorantRockFan
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« Reply #87 on: 15:45:06, 03-09-2008 »

The Charlotte Higgins blog puts a more positive spin on the article.

I shall be interested to read of Charlotte Higgins "experiment the other way round".

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Allegro, ma non tanto
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« Reply #88 on: 16:24:21, 03-09-2008 »

At first when we just came here I thought that opera was dead.

How wrong I was, very far from the truth. People love opera here. They know the most famous arias. They staged almost all major operas here: Mozart, Puccini, Verdi, Wagner, etc). They don't know Russian operas and they are not familiar with Baroque or Contemporary operas.
Work has to be done to educate people in these areas. Somethings are done already.

There are different segments of population and they like different things.
There are people who only like Romantic opera and operetta (Verdi, Puccini, Strauss, etc).

Young people like more contemporary operas and musicals. And then there is Baroque.

They would all go to different operas to explore. It is important to keep them interested.

There are such a long tradition of singing here. We have our own three tenors, we have three tenors from Dublin, etc. People want to listen, no problem with that.

And people want their children to be exposed to opera. We have an organization that presents opera for children. (This particular group uses marionettes).

I am convinced that opera is going to be popular genre. There are so many people who sing and people love drama. To combine both is a special treat for many.

Now I am involved in preparation for opera concert. We are going to have many different arias and choruses. They think it is the beginning of continuation of tradition.


More opera for us, please. And we like oratoria (plural) too.
« Last Edit: 16:26:06, 03-09-2008 by trained-pianist » Logged
Antheil
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« Reply #89 on: 16:26:59, 03-09-2008 »

At first when we just came here I thought that opera was dead.

How wrong I was, very far from the truth.

You can say that again!
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